Reply to: Oh Dear. How Sad. Nevermind.

[vetran]

Someone who has integrated: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...is-way-to-work

Indeed totally shocking but that is racism for you blind & stupid.

[darmstadt]

Someone who has integrated: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...is-way-to-work

[BlasterBates]

The problem with far right figures such as Hopkins, Farage and Trump is that they're extremely dim witted, and it is difficult to formulate arguments that don't expose them as being as thick as pigsh't, which means they don't feel respected.

[GJABS]

In the eyes of some, Churchill was a war criminal, not unlike that nasty Blair? Not his finest hour: The dark side of Winston Churchill | The Independent

Interesting find.

Reading through it, it shows that, even at the time, there were many who did not agree with Churchill.
But the point is that they didn't regard him as being what today would be regarded as "far right".

I suppose the problem is that in Britain today, the left does not respect those that the left regards as being "far right".
In the past, opposing sides would disagree with their political opponents, but would nontheless respect them. It is where the idea of MP's referring to "the honourable gentleman" comes from.
But today, the left not only disagrees with people like Trump, Hopkins, and Farage, but it fails to respect them as well. This isn't right.

Saying that, I am guilty of failing to respect some on the left. While I respect (but disagree) with Corbyn, don't get me started on Abbott or most of the rest of them!

[darmstadt]

In the eyes of some, Churchill was a war criminal, not unlike that nasty Blair? Not his finest hour: The dark side of Winston Churchill | The Independent

[vetran]

he used them on rioters

100 hundred years on, Jade Wright looks back at Liverpool general transport strike - Liverpool Echo

A HUNDRED years ago this week, Liverpool was gripped by the biggest mass social unrest and strike action the city has ever seen.

British troops were dispatched to deal with protesters on the streets and a warship was stationed in the Mersey.

The drastic actions of the then home secretary Winston Churchill, which resulted in violent clashes and deaths, have led some historians to conclude that Liverpool’s general transport strike of 1911 was the nearest the UK has come to a revolution.

Rioters attacked police and troops with bricks, bottles and chimney pots in Christian Street. Docker Michael Prendergast and carter John Sutcliffe were shot dead by an army escort while allegedly mobbing prison vans.

Four days later, HMS Antrim, an armed naval cruiser, was brought in to patrol the Mersey. But it was too late – by this point the Liverpool strike was spreading across Britain.

[GJABS]

Your logic is flawed.

1. Churchill was not far right
2. I agree with something Churchill said
3. Therefore I am not far right.

Unfortunately 3 does not necessarily follow from 1 and 2. Churchill did not express many of the other views you hold.

Your analysis does not show that my logic is flawed. It shows, or implies, that I have given insufficient evidence for its submissions to be proved to be true (having given only one example of an agreement between Churchill, and Katie Hopkins and I).


So I would need to give more examples.

Here is another example:
1. GunBoats.
Churchill approved Bomber Harris's plans to carpet-bomb Dresden during the war, killing thousands. If he did that, is it even remotely possible that he would not have approved of the use of GunBoats to prevent illegal migrants from approaching UK shores? Of course not.

[vetran]

I'd fix that by changing "had" to "have" and then trying not to marginalise anyone who hasn't lived in this country for at least 5 generations.

You think we have 5 generations to sort this out before it gets really nasty?

Plenty of other second generation immigrants do brilliantly after all your Doctor is likely to be one if you are anywhere near a major city.

[darmstadt]

Poor thing, how's she going to pay all those libel costs? Oh, I've just remembered, I don't care.

No-one cares apart from Daily Mail readers where she has a column and Fox News viewers where she is some kind of pundit...

[darmstadt]

Talking of the loony left:

SHOW YOUR FACE IN A
PUBLIC PLACE
UKIP will ban wearing of
the niqab and the burqa in
public places. Face coverings
such as these are barriers
to integration. We will not
accept these de-humanising
symbols of segregation and
oppression, nor the security
risks they pose.
Suggestions that UKIP is
undermining liberty with this
policy are absurd. There is no
human right to conceal your
identity. If anything prevents
liberty, it is the niqab, by
preventing women from being
perceived as individuals in their
own right. We want to open
opportunities to all women, so
that they can participate fully
in life and in the workplace.
Clothing that hides identity, puts
up barriers to communication,
limits employment opportunities,
hides evidence of domestic
abuse, and prevents intake of
essential vitamin D from sunlight
is not liberating.
We stand in solidarity with
women worldwide who
are rebelling against the
imposition of the niqab
and burqa.

And the BJ boat:

A DEDICATED BRITISH HOSPITAL SHIP
British medical expertise and disaster support is
among the best in the world. Our help is always
welcome in the aftermath of natural disaster,
disease epidemic, or famine. To increase the
contribution Britain can make in times of global
crises, UKIP will commission, equip and staff a
Naval Ocean-Going Surgical Hospital (NOSH).
...
The new NOSH will have at least 500 beds, a
flight deck and large hangar to support several
helicopters, as well as vehicle decks. It will be
a highly visible ambassador for Britain, and
will replace the Royal Navy’s current sea-borne
medical capability, RFA ARGUS, which is set to
retire in 2020. It will not carry weapons, giving
it the full protection of the Geneva Convention
in times of war.

[BrilloPad]

I'd fix that by changing "had" to "have" and then trying not to marginalise anyone who hasn't lived in this country for at least 5 generations.

Reminds me of a Swiss chap I once worked with. "I am not Swiss originally. I am Italian. My family came here in the 13th century"

[NotAllThere]

Your logic is flawed.

1. Churchill was not far right
2. I agree with something Churchill said
3. Therefore I am not far right.

Unfortunately 3 does not necessarily follow from 1 and 2. Churchill did not express many of the other views you hold.

FWIW, I agree with Churchill. Islam was a progressive force at one time. It is now regressive.

[GJABS]

The far right fantasise themselves as mainstream and somehow representing majority opinion. You are a case in point. I am a life-long Tory voter, somewhere in the middle of the Tory spectrum (though not euro-sceptic), yet I'm accused by you and your ilk of being a left winger. It's really bizarre.

It depends on what you define as "far right".

Winston Churchill was not "far right", and what did he have to say about muslims? Well the following is a quote taken from Snopes.com, the "urban legend" verification website, which states that the following quote by the great man is TRUE:

"Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world"

Winston Churchill on Islam

If he had said that publicly today, he would have been roundly criticised, and possibly criminalised under anti-discrimination laws.


I don't claim to hold a "majority" opinion. The reason for this being that people in the UK have become weak, from a cultural perspective, and have allowed themselves to be influenced by a somewhat anti-British narrative from the media.
So it is the rest of the population that has moved away from my (and others') lines of reasoning, leading it to cease being "mainstream", to what is denounced now as "far right".

I agree that your opinion IS mainstream. But much of "mainstream" opinion is culturally left-wing nowadays. Don't take it as a personal criticism - the influences are structural and deeply entrenched, and in many ways no-one can expect people to be anything else given the circumstances.

[Mordac]

Katie Hopkins has been sacked by LBC.

Katie Hopkins To Leave LBC Radio 'Immediately' | HuffPost UK

Not that they were sad to see her go by all accounts.

Poor thing, how's she going to pay all those libel costs? Oh, I've just remembered, I don't care.

[WTFH]

they had an opportunity to integrate they chose not to, how do you fix that?

I'd fix that by changing "had" to "have" and then trying not to marginalise anyone who hasn't lived in this country for at least 5 generations.