Reply to: Contractor being furloughed by client

[SussexSeagull]

Why clients/agents can't just say there is no work for you so don't come in and you won't get paid rather than go through this whole song and dance is beyond me.

[mrdonuts]

God I hate this term furlough. If we stopped using it everything would be much simpler and people wouldn't get confused as per this post. It's a permie term. Always has been.

what are you on about its a horse riding term f all to do with contracting

[d000hg]

Might as well tell them you will be billing as per the notice period and that since you're not an employee they cannot furlough you (link to govUK pages). Say you would rather work the period out.

You never know, it might work.

[northernladuk]

Cheers for this (and all the rest of you who have replied)

My main learning is that I've been really naïve about the whole world of contracting. I realise that's my own failings. Going forward it's obvious I need to move back into the permie world albeit at a lower pay.

If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen!

Technically your pay will shoot up five fold

[Table]

Welcome to contracting. You'll find that this varies year by year and client by client. I was served notice at Client 1 and worked and invoiced the full four weeks. I was served notice at Client 2 because they'd had the budget pulled - I wasn't going to work without being paid so instant leave. You're paid far more than a permie to build up a war chest to cover these times.

It all boils down to the contract. If there are two clauses in there, one about only being paid when submitting an invoice and approved timesheet and one about notice, the notice period is irrelevant. If you're not allowed on site/access to site, you're not going to be able to carry out any invoiceable work. It's often worth asking around to see what a particular client is like in terms of do they often cut contracts short and do they generally let you serve your notice.

Similarly I've seen people walked on the spot. They've come out of an office with a hiring manager, ten minutes later, all that remains in the office is their pass.

Here's the most important bit though; while sympathetic to your situation, the agency will ALWAYS back the client because they're the one with the money, while you're simply the agency's mechanism for relieving them of it. They can replace you far more easily than they can replace the client.

Cheers for this (and all the rest of you who have replied)

My main learning is that I've been really naïve about the whole world of contracting. I realise that's my own failings. Going forward it's obvious I need to move back into the permie world albeit at a lower pay.

If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen!

[LondonManc]

Cheers for all the replies, useful info.

I don't like the fact it seems a work around not to pay notice.

From some of replies it seems the consensus is notice period is worth nothing as the client could always say you can't come in, you haven't completed a day's work and therefore can't bill. Why are they even written into the contract then?

There's worse problems right now so I understand my moaning is out of place in grand scheme of things.

Cheers again.

Welcome to contracting. You'll find that this varies year by year and client by client. I was served notice at Client 1 and worked and invoiced the full four weeks. I was served notice at Client 2 because they'd had the budget pulled - I wasn't going to work without being paid so instant leave. You're paid far more than a permie to build up a war chest to cover these times.

It all boils down to the contract. If there are two clauses in there, one about only being paid when submitting an invoice and approved timesheet and one about notice, the notice period is irrelevant. If you're not allowed on site/access to site, you're not going to be able to carry out any invoiceable work. It's often worth asking around to see what a particular client is like in terms of do they often cut contracts short and do they generally let you serve your notice.

Similarly I've seen people walked on the spot. They've come out of an office with a hiring manager, ten minutes later, all that remains in the office is their pass.

Here's the most important bit though; while sympathetic to your situation, the agency will ALWAYS back the client because they're the one with the money, while you're simply the agency's mechanism for relieving them of it. They can replace you far more easily than they can replace the client.

[northernladuk]

Yep, I've often seen a project delayed a few weeks due to lack of availability of internal staff - in fact I ended up taking a week off last April as Bulgaria closed for a week due to Easter and National holidays falling in the same week so the end client asked for a delay.

Correct but they didn't furlough them.

[northernladuk]

The client is furloughing the contractor who has been supplied by the consultancy. But it is an interesting point, as I have been at clients where those engaged via a Managed Service Provider were not included in the end-of-year furlough (#NotAFurlough)

A client can't furlough another company's resource. You are being silly now.

[b0redom]

Cheers for all the replies, useful info.

I don't like the fact it seems a work around not to pay notice.

It's one of the main tenets of IR35 defence. Mutuality of obligation (to accept and offer work). You should really know this.

From some of replies it seems the consensus is notice period is worth nothing as the client could always say you can't come in, you haven't completed a day's work and therefore can't bill. Why are they even written into the contract then?

Who knows? Maybe because it gives the inexperienced a comfort blanket. I don't think I've ever seen MoO invoked permanently and immediately (with the exception of a security incident where a contractor was walked immediately). Furloughing is IME generally considered bad form to invoke from the supplier side, and as others have intoned only generally used as a cost saving exercise at Xmas/Easter/general shutdowns.

[Paralytic]

Have you ever heard a company furloughing a proper consultancy?

Funny day today. I'm getting bashed in one thread about having a permie thinking and bashed in another for trying to think like a business. Weird times we live in.

The client is furloughing the contractor who has been supplied by the consultancy. But it is an interesting point, as I have been at clients where those engaged via a Managed Service Provider were not included in the end-of-year furlough (#NotAFurlough)

[eek]

Have you ever heard a company furloughing a proper consultancy?

Funny day today. I'm getting bashed in one thread about having a permie thinking and bashed in another for trying to think like a business. Weird times we live in.

Yep, I've often seen a project delayed a few weeks due to lack of availability of internal staff - in fact I ended up taking a week off last April as Bulgaria closed for a week due to Easter and National holidays falling in the same week so the end client asked for a delay.

[northernladuk]

Why not just accept that the English language is fluid.

Have you ever heard a company furloughing a proper consultancy?

Funny day today. I'm getting bashed in one thread about having a permie thinking and bashed in another for trying to think like a business. Weird times we live in.

[Paralytic]

But sadly this is true. Just saying contractors should know better. I would have hoped the whole IR35 thing that has just happened might have helped.

We can all pick and choose from the myriad dictionaries out there. Doing a random search, there is by no means a consistency that it relates only to employees. eg

furlough somebody to give somebody permission to leave their duties for a period of time, especially soldiers working in a foreign country

furlough_1 verb - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Many just say "worker" and many refer to the military.

a period of time that a worker or a soldier is allowed to be absent, especially to return temporarily to their own town or country

FURLOUGH | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

The OED (which many consider a true source) does not allow searching online.

So, I'm not sure what you want contractors to do. I'd suggest simply asking their contact at the client to stop using the word is going to met with a funny look. Do you want people to ask their client to ask their HR to change their systems to remove the word furlough and replace it with something else?

Why not just accept that the English language is fluid.

[Table]

Cheers for all the replies, useful info.

I don't like the fact it seems a work around not to pay notice.

From some of replies it seems the consensus is notice period is worth nothing as the client could always say you can't come in, you haven't completed a day's work and therefore can't bill. Why are they even written into the contract then?

There's worse problems right now so I understand my moaning is out of place in grand scheme of things.

Cheers again.

[northernladuk]

You may think so, you might even be technically correct, but clients have been using to when referring to contractors for years.

furlough

noun: furlough; plural noun: furloughs
leave of absence, especially that granted to a member of the services or a missionary.
"a civil servant home on furlough"

verb: furlough; 3rd person present: furloughs; past tense: furloughed; past participle: furloughed; gerund or present participle: furloughing

grant leave of absence to.
"furloughed workers"

But sadly this is true. Just saying contractors should know better. I would have hoped the whole IR35 thing that has just happened might have helped.