Reply to: Working Hours

[Wanderer]

Get rid of you when they don't need you?? Up to a year you can get rid of a permie for looking at you in the wrong way pretty easily - a contractor who is plodding in the hope of an extension, is ultimately, a worthless contractor.

Dude, you need a holiday and chill out a bit.


It seems strange to have to spell this out to an agent but here goes.

A permie is a head count paid out of the head count budget, if you sack a permie then the manager will want to keep the head count the same and replace him/her with someone else. And it's bad for business to go hiring and firing your permies all the time, it makes for bad feeling and high staff turnover which is perceived to be a negative working environment.

A contractor is paid for out of a project budget (or some slush fund), they are not head count and no long term relationship is implied or expected. Project comes along, client don't have the head count (and don't want to increase head count and be lumbered with someone for life) so they get contractors in. Contractors knuckle down and do the job, hand it over to the permies for care and maintenance and then leave. Project goes tits up, manager gets angry hold a kangaroo court and sack the contractors (rightly or wrongly). Contractors don't take it personally, client managers are seen to have taken decisive action. Alternatively, project goes well, everyone is happy, contractor buys the beers and moves on. Next project comes up, you try and get the same contractors back in if you can.

[nfoote]

Does anyone take extra long lunch breaks, like 1.5 hours to fit in the gym or something in the middle of the day? My current client couldn't care less what times I'm here as long as the work gets done (I've changed my arrival/leaving routine about 4 times now over the last 6 months), but it sounds like some clients would spew tacks if you were AFK for more than 30min?

[TheFaQQer]

I am normally paid by the day, and normally work 5 days a week. I aim to do a professional week, due to travelling to and from site, putting in between 35 and 40 hours a week plus the travelling. This normally means either put all the hours in Monday to Thursday and working from home on the Friday having a fairly easy day - or else if on site all week coming in late on the Monday and leaving very early on the Friday.

That's my approach, too.

[TheFaQQer]

As a contractor that is plain stupid to do, if you get to much work done to quick you either get terminated early or there will be no extension!

It's pretty stupid for an agent to be suggesting that contractors should bill less, as well.

[SueEllen]

One thing not mentioned in this thread is that some contractors have more than one client so it's not always possible to do extra hours for one client.

Though some clients like agents having hard time understanding that they don't owe all the hours you have available to work.

[dynamicsaxcontractor]

I find all this talk of 7, 7.5 and 8 hours being a professional working day quite strange. I normally work 8am to 4:30pm. However, when there's lots on I put in the time that's needed, within reason. If that means occassionally being in until 8pm then I'll do it, but not more (and not too often).

Perhaps the difference is that I decide whether my workload is high and I need to do extra hours rather than a manager requiring me to work extra? If that were the cause I'd probably resent it.

I am normally paid by the day, and normally work 5 days a week. I aim to do a professional week, due to travelling to and from site, putting in between 35 and 40 hours a week plus the travelling. This normally means either put all the hours in Monday to Thursday and working from home on the Friday having a fairly easy day - or else if on site all week coming in late on the Monday and leaving very early on the Friday.

[SueEllen]

There's no point arguing with an agent about a contractor's working or delivery style. The only things you can actually have an informed discussion on are;

Bryl cream or Loreal : Which one for a less greasy looking do
3 series or A4 : Which one says "I've arrived"
Braces and White collar striped shirts : "Retro 80's look" or "Geko will always be cool"

HTH

WHS

[lje]

I find all this talk of 7, 7.5 and 8 hours being a professional working day quite strange. I normally work 8am to 4:30pm. However, when there's lots on I put in the time that's needed, within reason. If that means occassionally being in until 8pm then I'll do it, but not more (and not too often).

Perhaps the difference is that I decide whether my workload is high and I need to do extra hours rather than a manager requiring me to work extra? If that were the cause I'd probably resent it.

[NotAllThere]

Flaming contractors don't know how good you have it!

I work 55 hours a week as standard. I take calls at home as well. I take a lame basic salary, and whilst the commission scheme makes life easier, I do it because it's what I need to do to get on in the world.

A professional working day, is a 24 hour period, where you work as much as you need to in order to get the job done!

You're comparing (crab) apples with oranges. We're not ex used-car salesmen.

[Spacecadet]

Actually its more a matter of being professional. Better to do the work that is asked for in an excellent fashion than doing more work in an ok fashion.

Rushing delivery usual results in creating potential errors and faults no-one notices till the contractor has left the building

As for permies being cheaper than contractors. Crap permies may be cheaper, decent ones leave to go elsewhere.

FTFY

[Pondlife]

...Pointless headbanging...

There's no point arguing with an agent about a contractor's working or delivery style. The only things you can actually have an informed discussion on are;

Bryl cream or Loreal : Which one for a less greasy looking do
3 series or A4 : Which one says "I've arrived"
Braces and White collar striped shirts : "Retro 80's look" or "Geko will always be cool"

HTH

[eek]

You are like most agents, clueless about what actually goes on out on the sites. If I am contracted for 3 months to help withe phase 1 of a project, why shouldn't I be working towards getting an extension and being a part of phase 2? I certainly wouln't work 50-60 hour weeks to finish both my bits in phase 1 and the bits I would be doing in phase 2 to leave me out of work at the end of the initial 3 months.

Actually its more a matter of being professional. Better to do the work that is asked for in an excellent fashion than doing more work in an ok fashion.

Rushing delivery usual results in creating potential errors and faults no-one notices till its too late.

As for permies being cheaper than contractors. Crap permies may be cheaper, decent ones leave to go elsewhere.

[dynamicsaxcontractor]

Well if you know so much more, then you should be able to deliver in double quick time..... what's the point of engaging all that knowledge, if the contractor is not going to use it???

Get rid of you when they don't need you?? Up to a year you can get rid of a permie for looking at you in the wrong way pretty easily - a contractor who is plodding in the hope of an extension, is ultimately, a worthless contractor.

You are like most agents, clueless about what actually goes on out on the sites. If I am contracted for 3 months to help withe phase 1 of a project, why shouldn't I be working towards getting an extension and being a part of phase 2? I certainly wouln't work 50-60 hour weeks to finish both my bits in phase 1 and the bits I would be doing in phase 2 to leave me out of work at the end of the initial 3 months.

[The Agents View]

Because we know more than the perms and they can get rid of us as soon as they don't need us.

Well if you know so much more, then you should be able to deliver in double quick time..... what's the point of engaging all that knowledge, if the contractor is not going to use it???

Get rid of you when they don't need you?? Up to a year you can get rid of a permie for looking at you in the wrong way pretty easily - a contractor who is plodding in the hope of an extension, is ultimately, a worthless contractor.

[dynamicsaxcontractor]

And you guys wonder why there's a lack of contract work out there.....

How about delivery record? professional integrity? Deadlines? Value proposition?

You cost around about double a permies costs all in, if it takes you the same amount of time to complete a project, as it does a permie, why on earth would anyone take you on as a contractor?
Take double the number of permies and they're laughing.......

You are running a delivery business. Delivery businesses who don't deliver, don't last very long.....

Because we know more than the perms and they can get rid of us as soon as they don't need us.