Reply to: Rates and Margins in these times..

[Another Dodgy Agent]

I bet you still wear hair gel

Well, maybe! It disguises the grey hairs!

[DodgyAgent]

You will be pleased to hear that I actually where my hair very short, skin head in fact.

I bet you still wear hair gel

[Another Dodgy Agent]

And you can almost imagine him slicking his hair back when he said that.

You will be pleased to hear that I actually where my hair very short, skin head in fact.

[DodgyAgent]

For once I have to agree with DA (shocked look on many faces), this site seems to be awash with so called 'independent' contractors that do nothing but whinge about agents that try their hardest to get contractors onto roles (and admittedly make a slim profit on the deal also).

If you are not happy with the service that agents provide, then don't use them, sounds like you are better off on your own. In this market you need agents more than they need you it would seem.

PZZ

That is not my point. For a start I dont want to be associated with your whining that we "make a slim profit"

[pzz76077]

What a whining diatribe. It doesnt say much for contractors if in order to procure their services the market necessitates the existence of so many agencies (contractors dont care who they deal with) and other layers of bureaucracy.

Oh if only it were so simple that a short list of contractors could be easily presented, that their CVs represented their skills truthfully, that if offered they wouldnt change their mind and take a contract elsewhere, that they would cast iron guarantee to turn up to work on the day.

The middle layer that you refer to exists to male it as easy as possible to bring contractors together with clients. If you have a better way then lets hear it, but please spare us the whining.

For once I have to agree with DA (shocked look on many faces), this site seems to be awash with so called 'independent' contractors that do nothing but whinge about agents that try their hardest to get contractors onto roles (and admittedly make a slim profit on the deal also).

If you are not happy with the service that agents provide, then don't use them, sounds like you are better off on your own. In this market you need agents more than they need you it would seem.

PZZ

[DodgyAgent]

We don't have a choice, do we.. most of the time you lot are dinging each other to get on a PSL - the poor bod candidate who is actually doing the work is never given a chance to communicate with the clientco without going through the clogged up competitive meat market rat race agency channels.

Kinda typical of this country, there is this wide-boy middle layer in the way of everything here, estate-agents mentality trading wheelers and dealers with no moral compass (in the IT recruitment - most of these people are unable to distinguish a computer from a biscuit tin). Reminds me of the tabloid press mentality that seems to gain the UK an international reputation for immaturity.

I think it speaks to that fact that we have limited opportunities, but large amounts of aspiring technical talent - and thus this 'middle layer' can unaccountably thrive on the back of the few technical talented people - until they have sapped them of their skills.

What a whining diatribe. It doesnt say much for contractors if in order to procure their services the market necessitates the existence of so many agencies (contractors dont care who they deal with) and other layers of bureaucracy.

Oh if only it were so simple that a short list of contractors could be easily presented, that their CVs represented their skills truthfully, that if offered they wouldnt change their mind and take a contract elsewhere, that they would cast iron guarantee to turn up to work on the day.

The middle layer that you refer to exists to male it as easy as possible to bring contractors together with clients. If you have a better way then lets hear it, but please spare us the whining.

[expat]

I think its mad, but its all about clientco outsourcing the hunt for talent. Outsourcing is why we are here in the first place - so I don't knock it!

Good point!

[Grinder]

We don't have a choice, do we.. most of the time you lot are dinging each other to get on a PSL - the poor bod candidate who is actually doing the work is never given a chance to communicate with the clientco without going through the clogged up competitive meat market rat race agency channels.

Kinda typical of this country, there is this wide-boy middle layer in the way of everything here, estate-agents mentality trading wheelers and dealers with no moral compass (in the IT recruitment - most of these people are unable to distinguish a computer from a biscuit tin). Reminds me of the tabloid press mentality that seems to gain the UK an international reputation for immaturity.

I think it speaks to that fact that we have limited opportunities, but large amounts of aspiring technical talent - and thus this 'middle layer' can unaccountably thrive on the back of the few technical talented people - until they have sapped them of their skills.

Some of your sentiment I agree with, but PSL's exist because ClientCos choose this model, not the agencies.

I've worked at a clientco with a list of 5 PSLs including agencies and consultancies. Then these 5 also have their PSLs who I would hope ultimately go to the market place (and not to more PS's!). Everyone gets a cut, leaving your talented people with probably half of what clientco is paying, limiting potential talent to those who will work for less.

I think its mad, but its all about clientco outsourcing the hunt for talent. Outsourcing is why we are here in the first place - so I don't knock it!

[shanti]

You may be right, but for a group of indvidual's who have such a "downer" on agencies its amazing how many of you decide to work through an agency!

We don't have a choice, do we.. most of the time you lot are dinging each other to get on a PSL - the poor bod candidate who is actually doing the work is never given a chance to communicate with the clientco without going through the clogged up competitive meat market rat race agency channels.

Kinda typical of this country, there is this wide-boy middle layer in the way of everything here, estate-agents mentality trading wheelers and dealers with no moral compass (in the IT recruitment - most of these people are unable to distinguish a computer from a biscuit tin). Reminds me of the tabloid press mentality that seems to gain the UK an international reputation for immaturity.

I think it speaks to that fact that we have limited opportunities, but large amounts of aspiring technical talent - and thus this 'middle layer' can unaccountably thrive on the back of the few technical talented people - until they have sapped them of their skills.

[ChimpMaster]

What a great advert for your profession.

And you can almost imagine him slicking his hair back when he said that.

[d000hg]

Grow up little man, for the benefit of yourself. We have plenty of roles, but no need to advertise them in this climate, but you carry on DA in your little world, twat!

What a great advert for your profession.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

You obviously work for a p***pot little agency with virtually no roles if you are paying that much for your job adverts

Grow up little man, for the benefit of yourself. We have plenty of roles, but no need to advertise them in this climate, but you carry on DA in your little world, twat!

[Evil Hangover]

This is not difficult. If you think an agent is providing a piss poor service then just dump them. (Don't text them when you're pissed either)

[DodgyAgent]

As much as it pains me (I am on holiday and would rather be heading towards the bed of Mrs ADA for some much needed cuddles) I will respond. Firstly, cretin, agencies are actually regulated by the government and must conform to government regulation, but you would not be aware of that unless you ran/owned an agency which clearly you do not.



Nice, your research does you well, I have heard of MCSE, perhaps we should swap notes no?


Oh, yes cos we need more CVs, agencies are gagging for candidates!! No worries, I am sure our clients do not give us roles, that are not speculative, without budget approval, are not filled internally, are not scouting the market...



You do and if I knew you were on my database I would happily remove you and delete you off the system, because quite frankly I do not need the hassle of somebody who does not understand the current market.

Finally at an average of £12 per role, no agency in this recession would be advertising roles unless they believed they were real.

You obviously work for a p***pot little agency with virtually no roles if you are paying that much for your job adverts

[Another Dodgy Agent]

Audit by who? Fined for what? The industry is pretty much unregulated. You don't need a license, just some terms of business, a signed contract of a Clientco, an open req and you are in the great cash business of recruitment(!!!)

As much as it pains me (I am on holiday and would rather be heading towards the bed of Mrs ADA for some much needed cuddles) I will respond. Firstly, cretin, agencies are actually regulated by the government and must conform to government regulation, but you would not be aware of that unless you ran/owned an agency which clearly you do not.

I have heard of the R.E.C - but they are an agency funded talk shop with "guidelines" that give recruitment companies a nice logo if they pay them enough money to be members.

Nice, your research does you well, I have heard of MCSE, perhaps we should swap notes no?

If you spend your time carefully carving out a CV for a role which is speculative and get no status back - its been a complete waste of your time, yet the agency benefit from having another CV in the database kitty.

Oh, yes cos we need more CVs, agencies are gagging for candidates!! No worries, I am sure our clients do not give us roles, that are not speculative, without budget approval, are not filled internally, are not scouting the market...

I wonder if you have the data protection right to ask for the CV back and deleted of the agencies system? Better to have them waste their time taking it off, rather then benefiting by building out their databases at the cost of the applicants time. Make em' think twice before sticking up unfunded roles.

You do and if I knew you were on my database I would happily remove you and delete you off the system, because quite frankly I do not need the hassle of somebody who does not understand the current market.

Finally at an average of £12 per role, no agency in this recession would be advertising roles unless they believed they were real.