Reply to: All Government roles to be 60% on-site

[dsc]

[...]And they just spend their in-office days chained to their desks on Teams calls anyhow.

Ah the "fill my whole calendar with teams meetings, so I've got no time to do actual work" type.

[Spangled]

FWIW, I’m on an Outside IR35 contract doing design for DWP digital services.

I’m based in Newcastle but the project is notionally based in Manchester. Consultants on the project are spread all over the country, from London to Inverness. Civil Servants on the project tend to be more local to Manc.

When I started in summer 2022 the expectation was two days a quarter in Manchester for a quarterly planning session and the rest remote WFH.

First quarterly planning session was an in-office two-dayer (ie I stayed overnight), the second one was condensed to a one-dayer in the office and then the rest have been conducted virtually when they realised there were always some who couldn’t make the planning sessions and had to dial in so what’s the point making half the team schlep to Manc while Bill from Birmingham is dialling in. I’ve been to Manchester once more for a one-day design/UR brainstorm thing – which was useful – but WFH the rest.

There was some heat about 40% in-office expectations back in April 2023 – some higher-up going all Jacob Rees-Mogg about the empty desks - but the consultancy I contract through pushed back and contractors on the project were given an exemption. A higher proportion of the Civil Servants go into the office regularly – mainly cos they tend to be more local to Manc - but a lot of them are CS lifers (business change, transformation etc) who love all the in-office “bantz”, office politics, empire building and micromanaging their colleagues. But even they aren’t close to meeting the 40% (2 days a week) “rule”. And they just spend their in-office days chained to their desks on Teams calls anyhow.

[Cookielove]

Snooky totally with you, commuting wipes me out now....I'd have to get something lower paid locally or give up and not do same line of work anymore...

[oliverson]

Sure, sitting on my world class HermAn Miller

Ha ha

[dsc]

I take it you typed this from the broom cupboard?

Sure, sitting on my world class HermAn Miller

[Snooky]

I can't image doing that again....don't mind a mix 2/3 or 3/2 but I'd not go back to 5...did it for a long time and now am too old/too knackered for the long commutes...

Same here. For the last 4 years I've been mainly remote, only visiting the office at most once every 4-6 weeks. It hasn't made any difference to my productivity. Despite never really needing to be in the same place as my colleagues, I liked being in the office with them but I've always resented the 2.5-3 hours a day it wasted out of my life.

Now, when I do the occasional commute, it absolutely wipes me out. Having long COVID doesn't help either. Anyway, if I couldn't have a role with a similar remote pattern to what I currently do, I'm at the age where I'd probably just choose not to do this line of work any more, I'd find something more rewarding locally even if it was lower pay. Or I might even retire early!

[oliverson]

Relax Mr. I'm better than others with a WORLD CLASS "working from home" setup talk about making assumptions about things...

I take it you typed this from the broom cupboard?

[Cookielove]

There is definitely a push now to get people back in more and more, this week I've had a couple of roles via agencies one said 5 days in the office non negotiable and the other one said 4 days in the office but 5 is desirable...these are private sector.

I can't image doing that again....don't mind a mix 2/3 or 3/2 but I'd not go back to 5...did it for a long time and now am too old/too knackered for the long commutes...

[Dactylion]

Just comment on original Title:

I think this is just the "wedge" being rammed in a little deeper!

I was doing a HMG gig pre-Covid...
I was WFH basically 100% (aside from the odd team meet-up in various offices)
This was basically "unofficial" - in that the team of 6-ish were nominally based in about 4 locations scattered round the north of UK and nobody actively asked (or cared) where you worked (everyone knew)
The Covid hit and, pretty obviously, everyone went to 100% WFH
(Many permies openly made points such as:
For many years you have actively discouraged WFH
- but now it is "working" and working pretty well!!
What are the chances of having more WFH after the plague!!!)
Post Covid....
Most continued WFH for a while...
Then "Hybrid" was encouraged... for a while
Then "Hybrid - 40/60" was encouraged... for a while
Then "Hybrid - 40/60" was VERY STRONGLY encouraged... for a while
(They actually sent people round offices Headcounting)
Then "Hybrid - 40/60" was (attempted)_ to be "enforced"...
ie They asked Management/Team Leads to record the 40/60

So 60/40 is only the next step.

No doubt it'll get back to 100% being the norm.... but probably also back to the unofficial reality!!

There was an anecdotal rumour that one of the Ministers was amazed sometime post-Covid when he visited an office and there was basically no body there!! So he made it known that he expected people at desks!! (This anecdote is almost certainly repeated in every Ministry/Department)

[northernladuk]

How do you know they are basing things on their individual situation? maybe, exactly like you, it's based on evidence from family, friends, other? There's people with less than ideal home set ups that are more efficient from home, there's those with "ideal" set up who's efficiency is tulipe from home and anything in between. We have no actual data on who's doing how on what setup, so anything at this point is anecdotal evidence.

If you look at most posts from people saying 100% WFH should be a good given right and them mentioning they have a full setup at home it's pretty obvious they aren't looking at it from anything but their own situation which is pretty niche. They then apply this to the whole population. It's the same over and over again. I (and others) just point out there are many different situations to consider. You gather data where you can. From post like Oliversons, from friends/family, seeing what other people at your clients are doing on zoom/teams and applying a bit of basic common sense. Not hard to work out a family of 3 or 4 in a small terrace is gonna struggle and I know exactly who at my client works from the sofa and who doesnt.

Oddly enough, I have a full home setup as well but my other half has been told not to come in today because of the weather, I've come home early from my stay away gig and one of the lads uni is fully online today. Eldest is WFH today anyway and should have been the only one. Me in the office, one in kitchen, one in his room on a desk and the other struggling to find somewhere to sit. We couldn't do this everyday. Being in office/clients at different days works better for us than WFH.

[dsc]

There is that, there is evidence from family, friends co-workers and there is common sense knowing not everyone has a home setup and taking in to account their situations so a pretty good wrap. Far better than one person basing the whole world on their individual situation.

How do you know they are basing things on their individual situation? maybe, exactly like you, it's based on evidence from family, friends, other? There's people with less than ideal home set ups that are more efficient from home, there's those with "ideal" set up who's efficiency is tulipe from home and anything in between. We have no actual data on who's doing how on what setup, so anything at this point is anecdotal evidence.

[northernladuk]

You mean the bit about judging people's work from home set up based on a bloody Speed Awareness Course? wtf are you on about? Bit strong calling it "evidenced".

There is that, there is evidence from family, friends co-workers and there is common sense knowing not everyone has a home setup and taking in to account their situations so a pretty good wrap. Far better than one person basing the whole world on their individual situation.

[northernladuk]

It's not a leather chair, it's a Hermon Miller Aeron.

Mine as well, and the missus's.

[dsc]

Bit strong calling it ridiculous. They evidenced their argument at the beginning. [...]

You mean the bit about judging people's work from home set up based on a bloody Speed Awareness Course? wtf are you on about? Bit strong calling it "evidenced".

[dsc]

I sat an online Speed Awareness Course at the weekend, delivered via Zoom and the one thing that occurred to me was how ridiculous everybody's 'working from home' setup was, especially compared to mine, which is world class. All these people squatting in broom cupboards, dining rooms and corridors, etc., are no doubt the sames ones claiming they are MORE PRODUCTIVE working from home. In actual fact they are stealing from their employers.

The reality is that after 100% WFH, nobody wants to get up on a cold dark morning, hack the ice off their car and make their way through traffic jams to try get to their desk at an ungodly hour. I'm one of them. But fortunately I do have this fantastic setup, a client that has always been 100% WFH and always will be. I'm also old and I've earned my stripes both in my field of expertise and putting in the desk duty for around 40 years. So for me, being effective 100% WFH is the reality and I doubt I'll return to the office anytime soon, if ever. BUT, for the vast majority of people with tulip home setups, who have still to learn their craft, get back in the f***ing office most of the time!

Relax Mr. I'm better than others with a WORLD CLASS "working from home" setup talk about making assumptions about things...