Reply to: Rate increase

[ladymuck]

Apologies if this is the wrong place but I'm hoping to hop onto this thread as it's a similar subject to a question I have. I'm a first time contractor, and I'm coming up to the end of my contract in a few weeks. The client has said there's only budget to cover getting some projects over the line before some contractual deadlines they have with their clients. (These deadlines have been always beyond the date I was contracted until). My main point of contact does seem to be genuinely gutted to not be able to keep me on longer and we have a great working relationship.

If I choose to accept the renewal for two more months I'll likely have to look for a new contract in the summer whereas if were to walk now I might be in a better position to get a longer contract straight away and spend less time on the bench overall.

My query is, would it be out of order for me to go back to the agency and say that to accept the renewal I'd want a larger cut of what they're charging to the client? I've heard of some contractors doing this and spoken to some friends who work in recruitment but ideally I don't want to proceed in a way that poisons a well or is an overly short term approach.

Any guidance greatly appreciated!

The thing is, budgets do move about. At this moment in time all they can offer is 2 months. In 2 months, they might have more funds available. I've had a rolling 1 month contract before because the client was unable to commit to longer. I stayed there over a year but I could just as easily have been told sorry that's it at any time. It's a business risk you need to either accept or walk away from.

Are you saying that you're justifying the rate increase because the client can't commit to a longer period of time? If, in two months time, they offer you another two months, will you ask for more money again?

No-one has a crystal ball and you can't be 100% certain that you'll easily pick up another gig now or in two months. I personally would take the extension, keep earning while looking for the next gig and serve notice according to the terms when appropriate.

[northernladuk]

Apologies if this is the wrong place but I'm hoping to hop onto this thread as it's a similar subject to a question I have. I'm a first time contractor, and I'm coming up to the end of my contract in a few weeks. The client has said there's only budget to cover getting some projects over the line before some contractual deadlines they have with their clients. (These deadlines have been always beyond the date I was contracted until). My main point of contact does seem to be genuinely gutted to not be able to keep me on longer and we have a great working relationship.

If I choose to accept the renewal for two more months I'll likely have to look for a new contract in the summer whereas if were to walk now I might be in a better position to get a longer contract straight away and spend less time on the bench overall.

My query is, would it be out of order for me to go back to the agency and say that to accept the renewal I'd want a larger cut of what they're charging to the client? I've heard of some contractors doing this and spoken to some friends who work in recruitment but ideally I don't want to proceed in a way that poisons a well or is an overly short term approach.

Any guidance greatly appreciated!

Your answer can be found in the one sentence in the 2nd post in this thread.

It won't poison the well, it's business. Your situation has changed and you (mistakenly) think you deserve more money so you have to go try get what you want. You then need to go back and re-read my post 5 which covers what to do. You might get a few 10's of quid out of the agent if (if they aren't on fixed commission) but you saying you need more money because you might not get another gig later is going to fall on very deaf ears. Justifying your rise is one thing, blackmailing an agent is another.

Getting gigs is your problem, not the agents or clients so expecting them to pay more because of your business's predicament is a bit of a piss take.

Why do you think you are more likely to get a contract now or in the summer? What will have changed? If you were any good it won't be a problem but tell me your thinking about not getting gigs mid year? If you are are worried about gigs in May/June then wait until you get benched in Oct/Nov Dec!

[WayOverDunne]

Apologies if this is the wrong place but I'm hoping to hop onto this thread as it's a similar subject to a question I have. I'm a first time contractor, and I'm coming up to the end of my contract in a few weeks. The client has said there's only budget to cover getting some projects over the line before some contractual deadlines they have with their clients. (These deadlines have been always beyond the date I was contracted until). My main point of contact does seem to be genuinely gutted to not be able to keep me on longer and we have a great working relationship.

If I choose to accept the renewal for two more months I'll likely have to look for a new contract in the summer whereas if were to walk now I might be in a better position to get a longer contract straight away and spend less time on the bench overall.

My query is, would it be out of order for me to go back to the agency and say that to accept the renewal I'd want a larger cut of what they're charging to the client? I've heard of some contractors doing this and spoken to some friends who work in recruitment but ideally I don't want to proceed in a way that poisons a well or is an overly short term approach.

Any guidance greatly appreciated!

[Snooky]

The agency is on a fixed amount it’s not a percentage, I checked that out already. Seen the invoices.
I’ve sussed out a lot over last year don’t want to say too much but my boss is 100% lazy does zilch uses contractors to cover his work and some...fair enough that’s how the cookie crumbles. ? However I know through my role what he is paid he’s also a contractor as is his boss...they awarded themselves huge pay rises recently and do nada. Their monthly pay is mind boggling. But they are foreign and tight as hell with all the brits working as temps ...they are the decision makers and feathering their nests v nicely! Meanwhile we do all the work and they have refused increases before when our work changed. It’s one rule for them and one for the rest of us...feel hacked off ! To put it in perspective they earn more than double what we earn and my boss’s boss is earning treble ...it’s quite unbelievable ?

My only rule as a contractor has been "am I satisfied with what I get out of this arrangement?" - if so, great; if not, I either try and negotiate an improved rate or I move on elsewhere, assuming I can find a better contract (and that's not always money).

I've never fretted about what anyone else is making. It's not something I can change and it'd only wind me up if I knew someone doing less than me was being paid twice what I make. As a contractor you have to look out for yourself and in my book that means doing something about it if you're not happy, because nobody else will look after you.

I don't know what kind of work you do or what the market is like at the moment? If you think you can find something better, go for it and don't look back.

[Guy Incognito]

Form a union! Oh wait...

[TheDude]

very few people are not easily replaceable, even if it causes a bit of short term pain.

A lot of contractors lose sight of this as soon as they start trousering (what they think is) a decent rate.

[Paralytic]

It’s a 5 minute job is you know what you are doing ...there are several of us narked off it’s not just me it’s a wider group ! Thanks though for some input food for thought ?

It's quite simple. If what you are saying is true, and the bosses are doing no work, and you (and others) are doing all the work, then don't renew at next contract negotiation without a big increase. From what you've described, you've got them over a barrel and they'll have to increase your rate or they'll be found out.

Follow that approach, and you'll soon find out where you stand. For what its worth, my experience is that very few people are not easily replaceable, even if it causes a bit of short term pain.

[Cookielove]

It’s a 5 minute job is you know what you are doing ...there are several of us narked off it’s not just me it’s a wider group ! Thanks though for some input food for thought ?

[northernladuk]

It is right at Northernlad ...my boses boss is the CFO he is a contractor as is my boss. They worked together in a previous life! He has unlimited sign off so they are basically stealing a living is how it’s been described ! It’s not hard to find out their company name and see the invoices ?

Well if what you say is true then you are working for a truely tulip client and you need to move on. I don't know why you've spent the time looking up their companies and then going to find the invoices to them. Sounds like all you are doing is poisoning a half decent contract. Sounds like this is nothing to do with money. You are pissed off with your client and your only two options are to suck it up or leave.

[Cookielove]

It is right at Northernlad ...my boses boss is the CFO he is a contractor as is my boss. They worked together in a previous life! He has unlimited sign off so they are basically stealing a living is how it’s been described ! It’s not hard to find out their company name and see the invoices ?

[northernladuk]

The agency is on a fixed amount it’s not a percentage, I checked that out already. Seen the invoices.

You mean fixed amount regardless of whether they put a 200 quid or a 500 quid contractor in? Fair enough if you are sure. If that is the case then there is no where to ask for a rise from. The client certainly won't pay it has they have set rate cards and the agent can't so your problem has just disappeared.

I’ve sussed out a lot over last year don’t want to say too much but my boss is 100% lazy does zilch uses contractors to cover his work and some...fair enough that’s how the cookie crumbles. ?

Sounds like a smart guy to me to be fair

However I know through my role what he is paid he’s also a contractor as is his boss...they awarded themselves huge pay rises recently and do nada. Their monthly pay is mind boggling. But they are foreign and tight as hell with all the brits working as temps ...they are the decision makers and feathering their nests v nicely! Meanwhile we do all the work and they have refused increases before when our work changed. It’s one rule for them and one for the rest of us...feel hacked off ! To put it in perspective they earn more than double what we earn and my boss’s boss is earning treble ...it’s quite unbelievable ?

Hmm. I'm finding that a bit hard to believe. Contractors rarely get a say in rates whatever the level. Something doesn't sound right about this.

Regardless of all that, not your problem and nothing you can do about it. You can dwell on it and let it ruin a perfectly good contract or you can forget it and just get on doing what you agreed to do for the amount of money which you also agreed to. Everyone elses rate is no business of yours. If it bothers you that much then leave but you'll only end up in another gig, doing the same thing for the same money so got to rise above it. Contractors being shafted is common place and this doesn't sound like a particularly bad example.

[rocktronAMP]

The agency is on a fixed amount it’s not a percentage, I checked that out already. Seen the invoices.
I’ve sussed out a lot over last year don’t want to say too much but my boss is 100% lazy does zilch uses contractors to cover his work and some...fair enough that’s how the cookie crumbles. ? However I know through my role what he is paid he’s also a contractor as is his boss...they awarded themselves huge pay rises recently and do nada. Their monthly pay is mind boggling. But they are foreign and tight as hell with all the brits working as temps ...they are the decision makers and feathering their nests v nicely! Meanwhile we do all the work and they have refused increases before when our work changed. It’s one rule for them and one for the rest of us...feel hacked off ! To put it in perspective they earn more than double what we earn and my boss’s boss is earning treble ...it’s quite unbelievable ?

Well if that is how you really feel. Then GTFO is the only way it changes. "If the organisation is not changing, then change the organisation" or something like that as I remember it.

[Cookielove]

The agency is on a fixed amount it’s not a percentage, I checked that out already. Seen the invoices.
I’ve sussed out a lot over last year don’t want to say too much but my boss is 100% lazy does zilch uses contractors to cover his work and some...fair enough that’s how the cookie crumbles. ? However I know through my role what he is paid he’s also a contractor as is his boss...they awarded themselves huge pay rises recently and do nada. Their monthly pay is mind boggling. But they are foreign and tight as hell with all the brits working as temps ...they are the decision makers and feathering their nests v nicely! Meanwhile we do all the work and they have refused increases before when our work changed. It’s one rule for them and one for the rest of us...feel hacked off ! To put it in perspective they earn more than double what we earn and my boss’s boss is earning treble ...it’s quite unbelievable ?

[northernladuk]

Yes



No



Depends...



Really??? You think we can help???
It's your client. You've been on these boards a while now so know all the stock answers (or you should do). Outside of those stock answers (are you actually worth more? are you actually doing more? have you asked the agent? have you put your CV on the market?) there's sod all we can help with as it's your gig and your client.

Tell them you want more or you're leaving is the only approach. Whether that's with an offer on the table from elsewhere is down to your risk.

If you ask and are willing to stay without it, and they know this, then don't waste your time. They're a business not a charity, and so are you.

What he says. There is no right answer, it's purely situational and also depends on the people, mainly you.

It is reasonable as long as you've done some due diligene and the situation dictates it. It's not reaspnable to ask just because. You've got to understand why you are asking and how it might play out. You can't just ask as you feel you deserve it.

Firstly, you don't ask. You tell them what the rate will be. If they say no you have to be prepared to walk. If you aren't the agent will just play you like a fiddle. If they had a pound for every contractor that 'asked' for a rate rise and beat them down they'd fabulously rich. You've got to threaten their revenue stream to make it worth their while.

You have to have a good reason for asking. Why are you worth more? Moved positions, delivering more, were on poor rate before. Usually none of these will apply to a continuing gig. Staying more than three months isn't a reason either. The best reason is the agent has made enough commission to cover the effort and cost getting you. It's all free money from them now so you are squeezing their commission. They may give you a few 10's more to stop pestering them rather than face having to resource again. But, and it's a big but, you need to know if they are on fixed commission or they've pulled your pants down with some random percentage they came up with. If it's fixed then you have absolutely zero chance of a rise so might as well stop the whole thing dead right now. A smart contractor would have found out what their commission is first and then targetted that.

So you see, is it reasonable to expect a rate rise for nothing? No. Is it reasonable to appy the pressure when you know there is money to be had, of course, but it's situational and you need to manage it.

[Guy Incognito]

Personally I always negotiate very hard at the start on rate because increases draw attention.

Obviously you can ask, but I personally I think having another gig lined up is the only way to get the leverage you need.