I think that this has run its course.
Thread closed.
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Previously on "New to Contracting - working v part time for old employer - bad idea?"
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostThe problem is you say your way of working is right for every situation. When the noobs come on asking you tell them to go for it. Surely you know it's not right for all contracts, in fact very few. You also never explain what you do or ask what the poster does either which is a massive fail. We get it might work for you but you lose all credibility rolling the same thing out for every post on this topic. Advise on certain situations and it might sound more feasible. Saying everyone should be doing is just rubbish. It might be how we want to work but the market doesn't reflect that at all.
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Originally posted by TheGreenBastard View Post
You're one of the people fixating on time done, instead of delivery. Right over your head...
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Originally posted by SussexSeagull View PostDo you really not have breaks during your working day? Never have five minutes where you can't start something else before a meeting starts? How about waiting for a job to complete before you are able to continue working?
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Originally posted by ensignia View PostNLUK sees nothing wrong with posting endlessly on here during the supposed 8 hour working day though, funnily enough. I'm sure his employer would take a dim view of that.
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NLUK sees nothing wrong with posting endlessly on here during the supposed 8 hour working day though, funnily enough. I'm sure his employer would take a dim view of that.
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostUnless that is requested in the contract and is the clients expectation. It's there in black and white and anyone with a bum hole can tell if that's what the client expects. If it isn't in the contract, the client is aware and they are getting value for their money then fair enough. Fill your boots. If anyone of the three clients you have expect 8 hours work for the day rate then you are in the wrong, however much argue.. but you are getting away with it so fair enough.
Originally posted by northernladuk View PostIt's pretty uncommon to find a client that is truely happy with that situation, let alone three. But it isn't impossible.
That's kind of the whole point of what we do? Fulfil contractual obligations? It's in our name for a start.
A professional working day meeting clients expectations covers this. There is some flex on both sides and it works well for both. Doing 1/3 of the work expected by the client is a whole different situation. That's a poor argument.
But anyway, I don't even know why I'm replying.
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostUnless that is requested in the contract and is the clients expectation. It's there in black and white and anyone with a bum hole can tell if that's what the client expects. If it isn't in the contract, the client is aware and they are getting value for their money then fair enough. Fill your boots. If anyone of the three clients you have expect 8 hours work for the day rate then you are in the wrong, however much argue.. but you are getting away with it so fair enough.
It's pretty uncommon to find a client that is truely happy with that situation, let alone three. But it isn't impossible.
That's kind of the whole point of what we do? Fulfil contractual obligations? It's in our name for a start.
A professional working day meeting clients expectations covers this. There is some flex on both sides and it works well for both. Doing 1/3 of the work expected by the client is a whole different situation. That's a poor argument.
But anyway, I don't even know why I'm replying.
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Originally posted by TheGreenBastard View PostI simply don't agree, there's no reason a developer needs to have specific 0900 starts and 1730 finishes, unless they're pressing a button at very specific times that stops some island exploding, it's a very strong sign of client control. Mine are/were 5 day a week contracts - I just demonstrated some arrangements in the past that explained even on-site it was possible if you arrange your client facing time appropriately.
It's pretty uncommon to find a client that is truely happy with that situation, let alone three. But it isn't impossible.
Yes, your client(s) shouldn't have any say in you having other clients or exclusivity, that's a red flag for IR35, you're fixating on contractual obligations - working practices are far more important and I'm in a far stronger position than someone claiming 8 hours dedication to a single contract per day, working extremely specific hours.
The logical conclusion sticking to the idea of exact 8 hour obligations is that whenever you don't fulfill that you should be rebating the client. I bet you don't.
But anyway, I don't even know why I'm replying.
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Originally posted by SussexSeagull View PostIt is perfectly possible to work for one client and have hours of work mentioned while being outside IR35. I have literally worked for outfits that start up at 0900 and finish at 1730 so there isn't really much room for flexible working.
That sounds like they weren't five day a week contracts, which isn't what a lot of people on here running two contracts at a time are saying.
If you don't want to work onsite again then fine but I can't help but think it limits options.
I would only resort to onsite in dire economic situations; remote I can flexibly scale up multiple clients and deliver much better, so I'd turn that on you, YOU are limiting your business options with on-site work.
Originally posted by northernladuk View PostNope. It's been the way forever and it's perfectly fine if all the pillars are in place.
Where you deliver to a client is professional courtesy and can be writted in to a contract so a contracatual obligation. If what you say is true then we have carte blanche do do what we want regardless of the client and that simply won't work. A client returning to work after a global pandemic and changing their working practices has absolutely nothing to do with IR35.
Pointless arguing. GB does what he wants, he's gotten away with it so far so why shouldn't he carry on. No point arguing with him.. and Simes? Well Simes gonna Simes so we are all gonna have to agree to disagree and get on.
Does strike me as odd that the people against it can admit that in some cases it's possible but the people for it think they have free reign and no mention of situations where it is not possible. That alone speaks volumes to me but it is what it is and nothing is gonna change in this thread.
The logical conclusion sticking to the idea of exact 8 hour obligations is that whenever you don't fulfill that you should be rebating the client. I bet you don't.
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Originally posted by simes View PostAnd is not invoicing on an eight hour day all about Control and Permiedom and being Inside?
Inside IR35 alarm bells ringing again (my business isn't under their control);
Pointless arguing. GB does what he wants, he's gotten away with it so far so why shouldn't he carry on. No point arguing with him.. and Simes? Well Simes gonna Simes so we are all gonna have to agree to disagree and get on.
Does strike me as odd that the people against it can admit that in some cases it's possible but the people for it think they have free reign and no mention of situations where it is not possible. That alone speaks volumes to me but it is what it is and nothing is gonna change in this thread.
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Originally posted by simes View Post
Speaking only for myself, perfectly happy. If you can organise your diary, deliver as per, your 'Business' will have multiple revenue streams. Is that not what Business is all about? Ever heard of putting all ones eggs in one basket? Is there any other business model that survives with just one revenue stream.
I am quite disappointed in the non business-like manner in which this thread has evolved. Especially with all the clients we are hoping to eventually be educated into Outside IR35 ways. Very strange.
As to 'going back into the office', that is entirely one's choice ahead of accepting a contract but, popping in every now and again should certainly be accommodated. Going in fulltime though does not have to be a part of one's business model.
So if Contract A wants you on the office tomorrow, do you not charge Contract B for that day?
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Originally posted by TheGreenBastard View Post
Why not?
Inside IR35 alarm bells ringing again (my business isn't under their control); if they force a return to office, I decline, it's their loss. Remember multi-gigging is multiple income streams, I'm in a far stronger position not to put up with any client tomfoolery, I have RAID redundancy baked into my businesses finances.
For what it's worth I multi-gigged just before covid doing doing 1 on-site day at an hedge fund on Monday, and the rest of the week at some FTSE. Other times I worked on site occasionally for one client, and one remote, so it is possible.
My business operates 100% remotely now, irrespective of handling multiple clients, I'm done with onsite crap, pure bum on seat nonsense for senior developers.
That sounds like they weren't five day a week contracts, which isn't what a lot of people on here running two contracts at a time are saying.
If you don't want to work onsite again then fine but I can't help but think it limits options.
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Originally posted by SussexSeagull View PostSo people are happy to sign two contracts to run simultaneously that both require you to be available between 0900 and 1700?
Also, what happens if and when they want you to go back to the office?
I am quite disappointed in the non business-like manner in which this thread has evolved. Especially with all the clients we are hoping to eventually be educated into Outside IR35 ways. Very strange.
As to 'going back into the office', that is entirely one's choice ahead of accepting a contract but, popping in every now and again should certainly be accommodated. Going in fulltime though does not have to be a part of one's business model.
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Originally posted by SussexSeagull View PostSo people are happy to sign two contracts to run simultaneously that both require you to be available between 0900 and 1700?
Originally posted by SussexSeagull View PostAlso, what happens if and when they want you to go back to the office?
For what it's worth I multi-gigged just before covid doing doing 1 on-site day at an hedge fund on Monday, and the rest of the week at some FTSE. Other times I worked on site occasionally for one client, and one remote, so it is possible.
My business operates 100% remotely now, irrespective of handling multiple clients, I'm done with onsite crap, pure bum on seat nonsense for senior developers.
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