Reply to: Anyway to get SC Clearance without a role confirmation?

[ladymuck]

its not so much that they are "outdated" its that they live in a small bubble, of self reinforcing views, that repeatedly make the same mistakes, and tend to hire their mates from the forces rather than any concept of the potential candidate with the most merit, etc

Oh well, that is an outlier though. Nothing like that happens anywhere else, ever.

[CoolCat]

Yeah. The whole existence of that particular group is against all sort of rules, up to and including the definitive Cabinet Office guidance on security management. One day someone up in their ivory tower will realise that drawing your staff form a limited pool of often outdated personnel is behind the failure of so many HMG projects. It's not like they haven't been told, in some detail, with examples.

its not so much that they are "outdated" its that they live in a small bubble, of self reinforcing views, that repeatedly make the same mistakes, and tend to hire their mates from the forces rather than any concept of the potential candidate with the most merit, etc

[malvolio]

Pretty good bet that anyone standing outside the Queen Elizabeth II Centre conference center in London yesterday has an SC: http://www.securityclearedexpo.com/

I think everyone I spoke to on a exhibitor stand asked me 'Do you have an SC / DV /NPPV' depending on the particular business they were in.

Yeah. The whole existence of that particular group is against all sort of rules, up to and including the definitive Cabinet Office guidance on security management. One day someone up in their ivory tower will realise that drawing your staff form a limited pool of often outdated personnel is behind the failure of so many HMG projects. It's not like they haven't been told, in some detail, with examples.

[David71]

I thought if you had SC you weren't allowed to say so?

So is it more like "I don't not have SC but I can't not confirm either way" ?

Pretty good bet that anyone standing outside the Queen Elizabeth II Centre conference center in London yesterday has an SC: http://www.securityclearedexpo.com/

I think everyone I spoke to on a exhibitor stand asked me 'Do you have an SC / DV /NPPV' depending on the particular business they were in.

[northernladuk]

I thought if you had SC you weren't allowed to say so?

So is it more like "I don't not have SC but I can't not confirm either way" ?

That's true. MOD guidance says..

It is Cabinet Office/MOD policy that individuals should not make public the level of security clearance they hold; this includes staff disclosing their vetting status in order to secure employment opportunities. Individuals should also ensure that any reference to holding a security clearance on social media sites such as Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn is removed in order to protect them from personnel security risks that can arise if they draw attention to their level of vetting on-line.

Individuals seeking employment outside of the Armed Forces, should be made aware that Government departments, their prime contractors and recruitment agencies are expected not to ask for prior security clearances when recruiting other than in exceptional circumstances. In order to support this policy, the Cabinet Office has established a Code of Conduct reinforcing Government and the recruitment industry’s shared commitment for ensuring vetting requirements are applied fairly. All Contractors will be expected to comply.

That said we know that absolutely no one takes any notice of the bit in bold so makes the whole advice a bit pointless really.

[malvolio]

I thought if you had SC you weren't allowed to say so?

So is it more like "I don't not have SC but I can't not confirm either way" ?

True - but you're also not entitled to ask about it either. So perhaps your answer should be "Sorry, I didn't quite catch that"

It's all bullocks anyway. This is about agencies looking for ways to cut down the candidate list, and consultancy managers not wanting to have the cost of extra supervision on their project budget (which, incidentally, has to be included as a line item in the original tender response. Go figure...).

If the end client wants you, they will sort out clearance. The real crime is that they won't hear of you because of the above constraints. Hence most HMG work is done by the same pool of people with no exposure to the latest technologies.

We all know what the problem is, the challenge is to find a way of punishing companies who break or ignore the Cabinet Office guidance. Since clearance per se is not a law, that is extremely difficult, to say the least.

[Lance]

I thought if you had SC you weren't allowed to say so?

So is it more like "I don't not have SC but I can't not confirm either way" ?

that double negative there makes no sense. The first one is fine. HTH

[ladymuck]

The simple answer to any agent asking about SC is say "Yes. I've had it in the recent past, and see no reason I wouldn't be able to get it again".

As has been repeatedly pointed out, the clearance is likely to need to be re-applied for in a new role anyway. If it's a very short term contract the vetting people at the new place might just contact the vetting people at the old place and allow a person to work on that basis without applying.
I've never known an agent ask for evidence of clearance, and in some cases the worker will not actually receive any evidence so have nothing to show anyway.
In fact it would be simple to say "Yes I have SC" refuse to evidence it to the agent as it's not his business, and when/if you are interviewed by the client be honest.

I thought if you had SC you weren't allowed to say so?

So is it more like "I don't not have SC but I can't not confirm either way" ?

[malvolio]

it is possible to have an ad-hoc contract with a consultancy, that only wants to use you for, say, MOD stuff, for a day or two here and there. and via that route of having a very part time and occasional role keep SC long term which then helps if you need SC for another role. this is necessary or the MOD would never be able to call upon rare skills that they only need very now and again. but its also a mechanism used by some "in the know" to keep SC perpetually even when not working on stuff that needs it.

Yeah, right. List-X companies are regularly vetted themselves, so if their staff aren't routinely working on roles needing clearance it may be lapsed anyway. And twice I've moved from private companies to HMG roles needing SC and twice I've had to be re-vetted since the ministries don't really trust List-X vets; they tend to be more generic while ministries have their own, more specific criteria.

And once again, clearance is not a personal attribute. It merely means that this person meets the requirement of this specific role at this specific time. If the role doesn't exist, then the person is no longer cleared for SC (excepting., of course, the one year grace period which is merely a convenience anyway, and will not apply if the original clearance period - 5 or 10 years usually - has expired).

[CoolCat]

How would one go about getting recognised SC Clearance as some roles tend to say 'SC Clearance Required'?

Thank you

it is possible to have an ad-hoc contract with a consultancy, that only wants to use you for, say, MOD stuff, for a day or two here and there. and via that route of having a very part time and occasional role keep SC long term which then helps if you need SC for another role. this is necessary or the MOD would never be able to call upon rare skills that they only need very now and again. but its also a mechanism used by some "in the know" to keep SC perpetually even when not working on stuff that needs it.

[Lance]

The simple answer to any agent asking about SC is say "Yes. I've had it in the recent past, and see no reason I wouldn't be able to get it again".

As has been repeatedly pointed out, the clearance is likely to need to be re-applied for in a new role anyway. If it's a very short term contract the vetting people at the new place might just contact the vetting people at the old place and allow a person to work on that basis without applying.
I've never known an agent ask for evidence of clearance, and in some cases the worker will not actually receive any evidence so have nothing to show anyway.
In fact it would be simple to say "Yes I have SC" refuse to evidence it to the agent as it's not his business, and when/if you are interviewed by the client be honest.

[malvolio]

Ah interesting. I'd heard about the bolt on to NPPV before but I'd assumed the police or which internal organisation dealt with this was also List X. Interesting they aren't.

Still no good to the OP and every other bod that is looking to get SC before they get a gig but interesting point nonetheless.

Not surprising. It's as I've said many times, clearance is a risk assessment process. NPPV3 is measured on different criteria to Home Office/MOD SC clearance (one is more worried about financial probity, the other about coercion) so it's a sideways move, not a upward one. And some police roles require both, especially if the role steps into national security arenas.

I've applied for (and secured!) an MOD role while holding NPPV3 in the past, and still had to go through the whole SC process.

But, also has been said many time, clearance belongs to the role, not the person filling it. So no role, no clearance.

[northernladuk]

SC can also be applied for as an NPPV3 'add-on'; NPPV3 sponsors don't have to be List X....I'm one and I'm not.

Ah interesting. I'd heard about the bolt on to NPPV before but I'd assumed the police or which internal organisation dealt with this was also List X. Interesting they aren't.

Still no good to the OP and every other bod that is looking to get SC before they get a gig but interesting point nonetheless.

[David71]

SC can only be applied for by a List X company so you have to be engaged with them to do it. There is no way to apply for it yourself.

Pretty closed shop if you don't have it I am afraid. Chances of getting a gig that will put you through are slim to none.

SC can also be applied for as an NPPV3 'add-on'; NPPV3 sponsors don't have to be List X....I'm one and I'm not.

[DaveB]

Also not all it's cracked up to be. Don't think you are missing out on huge numbers of well paid gigs by not having it. You aren't, it's actually a relatively small market and rates really aren't any better than standard commercial gigs. If you have it great, if not don't stress over getting it, it's really not that big of a deal.