Reply to: Outside to Inside IR35

[Lance]

not sure where the complexity comes from

Tax deducted at source
No expenses
No VAT (flat rate or otherwise)
No corporation tax
No annual returns
No dividends
No doing your own payroll
No checking for IR35 clauses, or worrying about 2 years, or disguised employee status, or worrying that your oyster card shows the same tube journey every day, or the fact you got invited to the office jamborree

Many clients have bumped their rates to account for the higher tax payments.

It's actually a simpler world

It's only simpler if you're a wage slave or disguised employee in reality.

It's actual more complex if you are a genuine business with multiple clients.
I cannot just take an inside role for an interesting client if it's inside IR35. That would hugely complicate my finances and not be fair on the other clients who expect me to be a genuine supplier not just someone else's employee doing a bit on the side.

[hungry_hog]

not sure where the complexity comes from

Tax deducted at source
No expenses
No VAT (flat rate or otherwise)
No corporation tax
No annual returns
No dividends
No doing your own payroll
No checking for IR35 clauses, or worrying about 2 years, or disguised employee status, or worrying that your oyster card shows the same tube journey every day, or the fact you got invited to the office jamborree

Many clients have bumped their rates to account for the higher tax payments.

It's actually a simpler world

[NotAllThere]

I hope the same courtesy is extended when it is the other way round.

Yes they are.

[northernladuk]

I hope the same courtesy is extended when it is the other way round.

My posts were removed as well if that answers your question.

[SussexSeagull]

Off topic posts and those going on to insult a certain Northern Lad, removed.

I hope the same courtesy is extended when it is the other way round.

[NotAllThere]

Off topic posts and those going on to insult a certain Northern Lad, removed.

[ensignia]

I had an inside role for 9 months last year.

There is no practical or discernible difference between an Inside or Outside role for virtually 99% of roles and people.

Outside of us oddballs on here very few people know or care about the differences and contractors are seen as employees.

I'm almost glad the IR35 reforms came in.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for those responses, which provided some reassurance. I'm probably going to accept the offer, along with an umbrella arrangement and make large pension contributions.

On a slightly different topic, I think that clients operating "blanket" Ltd bans will come under increasing pressure to offer work outside of IR35. Especially as the economy picks up and the market shifts in favour of job seekers. I'm working for a financial house now, outside of IR35. It wasn't that difficult - they hired a third party to verify compliance of each contractor.

I'd agree but it won't be that many. It happened with the Public Sector. I had to leave my client at the time as they were blanket determining inside. I've been back as outside since and they've a good mix of outside and inside people via a pretty slick system (for a PS body). Only problem is that it's only a percentage of roles and a percentage of gov agencies. The vast majority I see are still inside.

I do think people don't realise how many roles were actually inside all along though. I think some blanket ban companies will reverse the ban as they get to grips with the legislation but only a few of the roles will be outside. It's not just a matter of them sorting their processes out, they still wanted PM's (for example) to supplement their perms and to give work to just as they see fit. That role should have been inside even in the old days. Even if the client starts working with outside gigs, many of the positions will still be inside.

[unixman]

Thanks for those responses, which provided some reassurance. I'm probably going to accept the offer, along with an umbrella arrangement and make large pension contributions.

On a slightly different topic, I think that clients operating "blanket" Ltd bans will come under increasing pressure to offer work outside of IR35. Especially as the economy picks up and the market shifts in favour of job seekers. I'm working for a financial house now, outside of IR35. It wasn't that difficult - they hired a third party to verify compliance of each contractor.

[jamesbrown]

You mean the complexity of YourCo receiving deemed direct payments and then your paying that to yourself as salary and/or dividends without any further taxes due and accounting for that properly in your accounts? Yeah, it isn't that hard (especially with FreeAgent or similar), but I probably wouldn't bother - it's even easier to work with an umbrella and you may benefit from a salary sacrifice pension too. If you want to keep your company open anyway, then you aren't saving anything on accounting fees, so that is moot. Of course, all of this assumes that the Fee Payer is even willing to make payments to YourCo.

[eek]

The easiest way to not have to deal with the complexities of an inside IR35 role is put the contract through agency payroll, client payroll or an umbrella if the first two options are not available to you. It will become overly complex if you try to put the earnings through your LtdCo

It's basically like taking on a fixed term contract, except with fewer rights and a client (sometimes) still thinking they're avoiding ErNI.

Proviso to the above, if you wish to put a lot into your pension use an umbrella that offers salary sacrifice options so that the part of the money that should be going to pay the employer NI ends up in pension pot

[ladymuck]

The easiest way to not have to deal with the complexities of an inside IR35 role is put the contract through agency payroll, client payroll or an umbrella if the first two options are not available to you. It will become overly complex if you try to put the earnings through your LtdCo

It's basically like taking on a fixed term contract, except with fewer rights and a client (sometimes) still thinking they're avoiding ErNI.

[PerfectStorm]

Ir35 isn't that complex - nothing you couldn't pick up in a day and be comfortable with 'living out' over the course of a gig or two. It's all about making sure that you work in the way a self employed person would, working on their own account.

It's certainly worth it in terms of opening up opportunities and financially over the notion of any sort of taking an Inside role for ease.

[northernladuk]

I can't stand the thought of the complexity of IR35 and having to spend time dealing with it all.

<modsnip>

To be fair to you, looking at the questions you ask about the work environment, which changes client to client, day to day and is often unrelated to your tax position you do demonstrate your unwillingness to put any thought in to this.

[slogger]

I recently had an inside ir35 contract at Morgan Stanley - high rate so compensated for higher tax - some weekend work which they paid at day rate, even when under 8 hrs which was nice. Fairly easy tbh - fill in timesheet, manager approves rest is automated. I was lucky in that I'm hitting 55 so could maximise pension payments and withdraw money at a lower rate when I retire soon. Wasnt treated any differently by MS or their staff - didnt feel like being an employee - still felt like contracting, however that may just be down to me :-)