Contract document through Umbrella rather than Recruitment Agency?

[Paralytic]

Ringing a client before you've even started to try push them to sign a timesheet for time you've never worked is suicide surely.

With most of my gigs, i've had a good relationship with a contact at the client even before starting. I guess if this is a disguised-employee type relationship, where the OP is just another resource, that might not be possible. They could also sound out the agency.

[northernladuk]

Whilst what people are saying is strictly true, i'd be speaking to the client to gauge whether they be willing to approve the timesheet for the week.

I've been at clients where other contractors logins have been disabled (due to late approval of contract extension) and they've been locked out of everything for a week, and yet they've submitted their timesheet, had it approved, and been paid. I've been at others where projects have been canned, and contractors have been able to "work" their full 4 week notice, with no work to do.

Its often the case that those who approve the timesheet have no idea that they legally don't have to do it if there's no work available.

Ringing a client before you've even started to try push them to sign a timesheet for time you've never worked is suicide surely.

[eek]

Whilst what people are saying is strictly true, i'd be speaking to the client to gauge whether they be willing to approve the timesheet for the week.

I've been at clients where other contractors logins have been disabled (due to late approval of contract extension) and they've been locked out of everything for a week, and yet they've submitted their timesheet, had it approved, and been paid. I've been at others where projects have been canned, and contractors have been able to "work" their full 4 week notice, with no work to do.

Its often the case that those who approve the timesheet have no idea that they legally don't have to do it if there's no work available.

I actually thought I had said similar but I hadn't.

Once you know who is in charge ask how you should handle this week given that the issue was the late arrival of their laptop and see what they say. They may well be happy to sign your timesheet - my previously point was don't go and fill in a timesheet expecting them to sign it without politely forewarning them and checking their reaction.

[Paralytic]

Whilst what people are saying is strictly true, i'd be speaking to the client to gauge whether they be willing to approve the timesheet for the week.

I've been at clients where other contractors logins have been disabled (due to late approval of contract extension) and they've been locked out of everything for a week, and yet they've submitted their timesheet, had it approved, and been paid. I've been at others where projects have been canned, and contractors have been able to "work" their full 4 week notice, with no work to do.

Its often the case that those who approve the timesheet have no idea that they legally don't have to do it if there's no work available.

[northernladuk]

As I said in my original post I've only been at this for 2 years so by no means do I consider myself an expert. Admittedly still learning the ropes...

To expand on my previous question, it was more about the fact that I have made myself available to the end client from the agreed contract start date. As my time was committed, and the delay is within the responsibility of the client, would it be reasonable for me to charge... Appreciate that the collective sentiment seems to be no, glad to have had others input.

Two years is plenty of time. You shouldn't be learning what is fundamental to what you do after two years sorry. You don't need to be an expert to know how you engage with a client that is going to potentially pay you 100's of K of income. But anyway, been said now. Up to you going forward.

Yep, it's one of the risks of contracting. We engage in Time and Material contracts. As said the flow is do work, get signed timesheet, get paid. It's in all our contracts. Time to be available doesn't really fit in with a T&M contract I am afraid.

It's the same at the end of the contract and when it comes to notice for example. If you give notice and the client walks you off site you are not entitled to notice period money as you didn't work it. You are still in contract, just not being given work so available but not working. No money again.

Same could be said for bank hols, xmas etc. You are available, client just doesn't want you in so you don't get paid.

[Analyst91]

As you should know contracts work on a day worked, timesheet signed, you get paid. It's the basic principles of what we do. It will be no different in this case. It's the same contract, just with a different party. It would be interesting to know if your contract with the brolly says something about this as well though. Have a read up and see what it says.

I have to say, you've made some pretty basic errors through all this by not understanding contracts properly. Your first post regarding the LTD, not understanding the chain of contracts and not understanding some of the basic elements of a contract. You really need to get up to speed. If you had a reasonable grasp of contracts you wouldn't have had to ask any of these things. This is very basic stuff and it's what you do as a job so you really should know. It's in your title as a CONTRACTor. Time to pull your socks up a bit I'd say.

As I said in my original post I've only been at this for 2 years so by no means do I consider myself an expert. Admittedly still learning the ropes...

To expand on my previous question, it was more about the fact that I have made myself available to the end client from the agreed contract start date. As my time was committed, and the delay is within the responsibility of the client, would it be reasonable for me to charge... Appreciate that the collective sentiment seems to be no, glad to have had others input.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for the advice!

Quick update: my laptop was only just delivered this morning after a string of delays on the client side. I therefore missed my scheduled induction meaning I will now not start work until next Monday 26th July.

However having finally received my contract from the umbrella company (between themselves and the recruitment agency), the start date is stated as the 19th July. Am I therefore correct in assuming that I will be paid for the week delay to my start date? When filling out my timesheet next week shall I input hours for this week despite not having started with the end client?

As you should know contracts work on a day worked, timesheet signed, you get paid. It's the basic principles of what we do. It will be no different in this case. It's the same contract, just with a different party. It would be interesting to know if your contract with the brolly says something about this as well though. Have a read up and see what it says.

I have to say, you've made some pretty basic errors through all this by not understanding contracts properly. Your first post regarding the LTD, not understanding the chain of contracts and not understanding some of the basic elements of a contract. You really need to get up to speed. If you had a reasonable grasp of contracts you wouldn't have had to ask any of these things. This is very basic stuff and it's what you do as a job so you really should know. It's in your title as a CONTRACTor. Time to pull your socks up a bit I'd say.

[eek]

Thanks for the advice!

Quick update: my laptop was only just delivered this morning after a string of delays on the client side. I therefore missed my scheduled induction meaning I will now not start work until next Monday 26th July.

However having finally received my contract from the umbrella company (between themselves and the recruitment agency), the start date is stated as the 19th July. Am I therefore correct in assuming that I will be paid for the week delay to my start date? When filling out my timesheet next week shall I input hours for this week despite not having started with the end client?

Why? You weren't able to do the work and no work has been given to you so you start work next Monday...

And filling a timesheet in without warning for a week you didn't do any work in is going to mark you out as trouble that is probably not worth keeping.

I wouldn't do it unless you get someone to sign it off first.

[ladymuck]

Thanks for the advice!

Quick update: my laptop was only just delivered this morning after a string of delays on the client side. I therefore missed my scheduled induction meaning I will now not start work until next Monday 26th July.

However having finally received my contract from the umbrella company (between themselves and the recruitment agency), the start date is stated as the 19th July. Am I therefore correct in assuming that I will be paid for the week delay to my start date? When filling out my timesheet next week shall I input hours for this week despite not having started with the end client?

I'd be extremely surprised if you were paid for the week you weren't working.

Fill it in, by all means, but do expect it to be rejected.

[Analyst91]

Thanks for the advice!

Quick update: my laptop was only just delivered this morning after a string of delays on the client side. I therefore missed my scheduled induction meaning I will now not start work until next Monday 26th July.

However having finally received my contract from the umbrella company (between themselves and the recruitment agency), the start date is stated as the 19th July. Am I therefore correct in assuming that I will be paid for the week delay to my start date? When filling out my timesheet next week shall I input hours for this week despite not having started with the end client?

[northernladuk]

Hi all,

I've been contracting for a couple of years now and my contract has always been between myself and the Recruitment Agency (i.e the document stating length of contract/day rate etc...)

No it isn't. It's between your LTD and your agency. If it was yourself you'd probably be inside all this time.

However I am due to start a new role for a public sector client and the agency is saying my contract will be sent through by my umbrella company rather than themselves. Has anyone ever had this situation arise?

Yes, every single employee of an umbrella every. The contract is between the agent and the brolly and you are just an employee of the brolly. Its as simple as that.

I understand that legally I am an employee of the umbrella company however they have not been the ones to issue me with a contract in the past. I am feeling slightly wary as my start date is tomorrow and I am yet to receive or sign any contract.

Any advice welcome!

You shouldn't feel wary about the contract chain. That's a given and is the same in every case. You should be wary you haven't been told to start yet. You can't go on site until the contract has been properly signed. You are covered by the brollys insurances which won't cover you if the contract isn't in place. You will not receive any contract. You are employed but you can check the brolly has got it and it's been completed.

You need to be ringing the brolly and making sure everything is in order before you start. They are your employer now so they are the first person to ask about this.

[Lance]

my start date was supposed to be tomorrow but as I have not yet received a contract I'm not going to start

FTFY

Don't start without it.

[ladymuck]

Yes this is normal. The agency contracts with the umbrella and the umbrella contracts with you.

Technically, it wasn't you contracting with the agency, it was your LtdCo, and you personally were contracted to your LtdCo. You may not have had a written contract but that was the chain as you are a separate legal entity from your LtdCo.

The chain isn't any different, it's just the intermediary between the agency and you that's changed (along with all that extra tax and lack of expenses...)

[Analyst91]

Hi all,

I've been contracting for a couple of years now and my contract has always been between myself and the Recruitment Agency (i.e the document stating length of contract/day rate etc...) However I am due to start a new role for a public sector client and the agency is saying my contract will be sent through by my umbrella company rather than themselves. Has anyone ever had this situation arise?

I understand that legally I am an employee of the umbrella company however they have not been the ones to issue me with a contract in the past. I am feeling slightly wary as my start date is tomorrow and I am yet to receive or sign any contract.

Any advice welcome!