Reply to: Getting line managers to think the right way about contract renewals

[eek]

The trouble with benefits is that they are provided by the company and don't fit the "same work = same tax" mantra that HMRC were touting.

Now, if were to look at employee rights and push for those to be given to disguised employees...

Oh that will come - otherwise the medium term viewpoint is that everyone will be employed by umbrella companies

[ladymuck]

Maybe if PCG / IPSE had focused on getting privat sector companies on board by pushing for benefits for disguised employees. then clients could well have thought better about managing contractors a long time ago...

The trouble with benefits is that they are provided by the company and don't fit the "same work = same tax" mantra that HMRC were touting.

Now, if were to look at employee rights and push for those to be given to disguised employees...

[CalmEddie]

No you don't. Permies report to directors.

I can't keep up with your preferred lexicon. Definition of report? of contractor? Which is it this time?

Well before you take away my contractor card because I'm inside IR35, there is no problem with me reporting to anyone or in fact having people report to me.

[perplexed]

It's a multi-pronged approach to getting clients to think better about how to manage contractors.

I'd firstly say they should take the engagement out of HR's hands and give to procurement, and then give training to managers on the difference between a contractor vs a temp vs a permie / FTC and scenarios each works best in.

There's anecdotes galore, I'm sure. Being told you have to contribute to the tea and biscuit fund, getting invited on teambuilding days out, etc

Maybe if PCG / IPSE had focused on getting privat sector companies on board by pushing for benefits for disguised employees. then clients could well have thought better about managing contractors a long time ago...

[SussexSeagull]

If I am being honest other than doing your job well there isn't that much you can do unless they have completely forgotten your end date. Generally speaking I have either gone when the project has finished or when someone decides they don't want to pay you anymore. In either instance no amount of niche skills or smooth talking are going to make much difference.

[northernladuk]

I know I have a low post count but I've been contracting for 19 years. These days I report to directors.

No you don't. Permies report to directors.

* line manager. Or whatever.

You appear to find it a bit of a joke or something. How are you supposed to educate them on what they need to do and act when you don't know yoursef? If you can think and act in a certain way, including terminology everything will be much easier.

[ladymuck]

It's a multi-pronged approach to getting clients to think better about how to manage contractors.

I'd firstly say they should take the engagement out of HR's hands and give to procurement, and then give training to managers on the difference between a contractor vs a temp vs a permie / FTC and scenarios each works best in.

There's anecdotes galore, I'm sure. Being told you have to contribute to the tea and biscuit fund, getting invited on teambuilding days out, etc

[CalmEddie]

I'm guessing this forum is mostly IT techies?

Thanks for the advice, though again, this is not about my contract. I'm not looking for solutions, I just want to discuss. I'm old fashioned in that I see forum as, well, a forum, a place for discussion. I know these days it can be more of a ticket system for a support desk type approach, so apologies if I posted in the wrong place.

I know I have a low post count but I've been contracting for 19 years. These days I report to directors.


So, this is not about me worrying where my money is coming from. This is about where I can spend the company's money to ensure contract pool remains in place.
It's actually sorted now, I've put things in place.

But I'm still interested if anyone has anecdotes about "permies with spend authority"* not really understanding how contractors function.



* line manager. Or whatever.

[malvolio]

In my time as a contractor the renewal contract was often late. It wasn't unusual for the paperwork to be completed after the renewal had begun. Even if you have a contract it can be terminated at short notice. There are plenty of contractors who walk out if their written contracts aren't there, but it achieves absolutely nothing other than for the contractor to lose a day's pay. The contract will arrive late at the next renewal as well. If you have a verbal confirmation from your agent then not worth getting angry about. Legally if you're on site working it means the contract has been agreed and the paperwork is a formality.

Ermm, no, it means you are working under the terms of the previously agreed contract...

[BlasterBates]

In my time as a contractor the renewal contract was often late. It wasn't unusual for the paperwork to be completed after the renewal had begun. Even if you have a contract it can be terminated at short notice. There are plenty of contractors who walk out if their written contracts aren't there, but it achieves absolutely nothing other than for the contractor to lose a day's pay. The contract will arrive late at the next renewal as well. If you have a verbal confirmation from your agent then not worth getting angry about. Legally if you're on site working it means the contract has been agreed and the paperwork is a formality.

[PerfectStorm]

If there are a few contractors onboard, chances are a few of you are from the same agency, and there will be an overhanging client-agency contract to supply X people that needs to be renewed first.

I've learnt that there's not much point asking about when your renewal's coming (or if it is) until that's done. And agents will be fairly honest with you (!) about what the status of that is.

And always, always, start the job search a month or so before any 'renewal', even if you think it's a dead cert. You have no one to cry to but yourself when it doesn't turn up on the last Friday...

[anonymouse]

Yes but it's not furlough. That's a permie term and he'd have to still be in contract to be furloughed. If one contract has been cancelled because there is no work and then they call him back in a few months with a new contract then definitely an absence of MoO.. but not furlough.

Or have I read that wrong and you mean claim furlough with the covid rather than the general term furlough?

There's work but it's not chargeable, so they ended his contract, end off. The TM wants him back, it's a new budgeted piece of work starting in 3 weeks, but the onboarding starts again, which takes 2 months, all PS and inside.

[northernladuk]

So a 3 week furlough period during which no work is available.

That contract is clearly outside IR35 as you've ticked the No mutuality of obligation (MOO) box.

Yes but it's not furlough. That's a permie term and he'd have to still be in contract to be furloughed. If one contract has been cancelled because there is no work and then they call him back in a few months with a new contract then definitely an absence of MoO.. but not furlough.

Or have I read that wrong and you mean claim furlough with the covid rather than the general term furlough?

[eek]

Just happened here, there is more work in 3 weeks time, but the business won't fund for the period before that. They just let the other guy go, onboarding takes 2 months to get him back onboard, if he's still available.

So a 3 week furlough period during which no work is available.

That contract is clearly outside IR35 as you've ticked the No mutuality of obligation (MOO) box.

[anonymouse]

Just happened here, there is more work in 3 weeks time, but the business won't fund for the period before that. They just let the other guy go, onboarding takes 2 months to get him back onboard, if he's still available.