Reply to: Perm vs FTC

[man]

Thanks for the update.

Interesting, but I suppose, not that surprising.

And the current contract, Inside or Out, can one ask?

Certainty: All of them have been outside, up to and including today's. It's got to the point where I've started to work with more than one client at a time on a fractional basis.

[simes]

Thanks for the update.

Interesting, but I suppose, not that surprising.

And the current contract, Inside or Out, can one ask?

[ladymuck]

OP here: Thought you might want to know how it went in the end.

Negotiated 6 month FTC with full permie benefits, didn't enjoy it (way too much red tape, as the parent wouldn't let the new business spend anything without parent exec-level sign off), so I didn't renew (which made some people unhappy but that's not something I can help).

Resumed contracting to find that my added experience massively increased the demand for my skills and things have gone very well since. No regrets.

Thanks for letting us know how it went.

Sorry it wasn't the opportunity they sold it as but it seems like you got something useful from it anyway, which is great news.

[man]

OP here: Thought you might want to know how it went in the end.

Negotiated 6 month FTC with full permie benefits, didn't enjoy it (way too much red tape, as the parent wouldn't let the new business spend anything without parent exec-level sign off), so I didn't renew (which made some people unhappy but that's not something I can help).

Resumed contracting to find that my added experience massively increased the demand for my skills and things have gone very well since. No regrets.

[edison]

3 months is standard for mid senior roles. 1 month for entry level/junior roles. Of course companies do what they want. One place wanted my wife to sign with 6 month notice period, it was a 26k a year admin role. She didn't take the job and I could actually hear them yelling at her on the phone when she told them she was declining the job.

Most 'reasonable' companies won't enforce a 3 month period for a middle manager role. You can normally negotiate to something like 6-8 weeks but it depends on the circumstances including if there is someone internal who can temporarily stand in whilst they recruit.

I've had one role where the company wouldn't budge though.

A 6 month notice period would normally be a senior exec role. That's crazy for an admin role.

[eek]

3 months is standard for mid senior roles. 1 month for entry level/junior roles. Of course companies do what they want. One place wanted my wife to sign with 6 month notice period, it was a 26k a year admin role. She didn't take the job and I could actually hear them yelling at her on the phone when she told them she was declining the job.

"Thank you for confirming my decision" and then put the phone down.

[jayn200]

I guess it may depend on the level, but my permanent roles never had a 3 months notice. All 1 month, increasing to 3 after X years of service.

3 months is standard for mid senior roles. 1 month for entry level/junior roles. Of course companies do what they want. One place wanted my wife to sign with 6 month notice period, it was a 26k a year admin role. She didn't take the job and I could actually hear them yelling at her on the phone when she told them she was declining the job.

[PCTNN]

Downside with perm is the notice period of three months if it really doesn’t work.

I guess it may depend on the level, but my permanent roles never had a 3 months notice. All 1 month, increasing to 3 after X years of service.

[rocktronAMP]

Had an interesting chat with an old client last week and I'm beginning to second guess myself - was hoping for your thoughts as I still have time to decide.

An old client (large multinational I've had a handful of great previous engagements with) approached me, they're starting up a new company in the group and want me to run a key function (which is something my CV would benefit from)

But there's a hitch - they can't hire any contractors right now, for any reason, so they were trying to get me to entertain a perm offer.

I refused, so they suggested they could offer an FTC, which would be 6 months initially. And then they'd ask again if I want perm.

Normally I wouldn't entertain an FTC due to the cash side but aside from one or two narrowly missed good opportunities, the market has been pretty quiet for months and I figure if I can't make the contract money at least I can make the CV look better, and if I'm enjoying myself working on this startup I could hang around.

My thinking with FTC is that it prevents me being trapped between lower money/something I'm not enjoying and trying to explain a short perm job to agents. Do I have the right understanding of it?

In the 12 months FTC that I signed, earlier this year, if you are sick then you do not get paid, just like a LTD contractor. However, I do have 23 days paid holiday. So I strongly recommend checking and agreeing the contractual terms, because your mileage may vary.

If you get Covid 19 suddenly and then get sick for a long time, in my deal, the family will lose income. Whereas in perm this is not so. Also with FTC there will be an auto-enrolled (master) pension scheme, because it will be part PAYE solution (inside IR35).

If you have a strong aversion to perm, I'd recommend going for a 12 months FTC instead with a 4 week notice period either side. For example, you, and I, are probably unlikely to need gym membership, free breakfast and client restaurant discounts or annual train ticket allowances, company cars, but you might be very interested in bupa and other life insurance etc etc.

Good choice to have in this climate.

[SussexSeagull]

TBH FTC and, so called, Permanent roles aren't as different as they used to be in the current climate.

[ladymuck]

For once I actually agree with going perm.
The difference between FTC and perm is a bit moot anyway.
And if starting a new function, worse executive duties, outside IR35 contract is probably not even an option.

Downside with perm is the notice period of three months if it really doesn’t work.

Good luck.

That's where a bit of negotiating could work in the OP's favour. I don't think all perm roles have 3 months' notice (but then I haven't held a perm role since 2005) but the OP could negotiate a mutually convenient notice period of, say, a month or 6 weeks rather than 3 months if that is the company's default. Depending on the seniority of the role, the notice period could well end up being paid in lieu rather than worked.

[Lance]

+1 - by going permanent the firm isn't looking for your replacement by using FTC the company is always going to worry that you won't renew and leave them in the lurch.

In the current market just go permanent, use the time to move up to another level again and then decide what to do.

For once I actually agree with going perm.
The difference between FTC and perm is a bit moot anyway.
And if starting a new function, worse executive duties, outside IR35 contract is probably not even an option.

Downside with perm is the notice period of three months if it really doesn’t work.

Good luck.

[eek]

I really don't get all this worry about explaining away a perm job. Many here have dipped in and out as opportunities have presented themselves and lived to tell the tale.

A manger at an ex-client was perm for years before going freelance. She then realised to get where she wanted to be and have the level of control/influence she wanted, she had to go perm again. When the time was right, she went back freelance again. She's very respected in her line of work and suffered no issues with switching.

Why people are touting time as perm as shameful and something that needs to be hidden like some 1940s unwed mother, is totally beyond me.

+1 - by going permanent the firm isn't looking for your replacement by using FTC the company is always going to worry that you won't renew and leave them in the lurch.

In the current market just go permanent, use the time to move up to another level again and then decide what to do.

[GmartSuy]

FTC, a permi but with a fixed end date. Surprisingly not an oxymoron.

[ladymuck]

I really don't get all this worry about explaining away a perm job. Many here have dipped in and out as opportunities have presented themselves and lived to tell the tale.

A manger at an ex-client was perm for years before going freelance. She then realised to get where she wanted to be and have the level of control/influence she wanted, she had to go perm again. When the time was right, she went back freelance again. She's very respected in her line of work and suffered no issues with switching.

Why people are touting time as perm as shameful and something that needs to be hidden like some 1940s unwed mother, is totally beyond me.