Reply to: Fight to save Ltd or not

[NotAllThere]

I think this thread has run its course.

[PCTNN]

Now he seeks ways to get out.

which we have provided (sell assets and repay your debt).

but OP shrugged his shoulders, didn't seem too keen on it as "me house is me pension" and found it more useful to blame the government for screwing him over and accused us to just being envious of his lifestyle.

[GitMaster69]

If you bankrupt your LTD and not pay taxes or VAT HMRC will ban you from being director for 2 years and review all your contracts for IR35. Thats what they did to my friend in 2008.Have you factored that in? If you have high debt in company do bankrupt it though and start again. That's what it is for specifically, so settle what accountant advices and do it, and do settle HMRC!

[BigDataPro]

There is a term "Fallacy of the Single Cause", where by people assume / associate a particular one cause for an event.

But in reality, accumulation of various different causes are associated with it.

OP has reached this position through accumulation of it. Now he seeks ways to get out. It would be productive and constructive to show him the ropes, if you know how to.

There is no point in criticising "You should have done this, should have done that". Even your criticism falls under fallacy of single cause.

Probably we can keep bashing for later discussions, when OP buys us all a round of drinks to let us know that he has bounced back.

[Old Greg]

I agree, its down to your lifestyle choices.

You've used to being on £650+/day rates, had "8 years of constant end-to-end contracting", sometimes billing "8 days a week", but still needed a directors loan.

But, i don't see why your lifestyle choices meant not setting something aside for when the good times stop (as you should have expected would happen one day) and you now believe the government should step in.

Others have given you a good way out of this. The first thing is to pay off that directors loan. From there, the company is still in a net-negative asset position, and you have options from there

1. try to get that contract that lets you pay off the HMRC debts and the BBL
2. close down the company and hope that HMRC does not come after you for personally the VAT/CT (due to the way you've run the company finances), and that the BBL will just be written off with no liability falling back to you personally

The Director's loan repayment will pay off the CT and VAT (working via a brolly would achieve this), with a bit left over to pay down a small amount of the BBL. Then let the company fail.

[Paralytic]

Err little support in this pandemic. Taking on debt to survive whilst most people are bankrolled not to work. One property is my pension. I don’t have a conventional pension. Sounds like you’re saying anybody who has a pension is well off. I also have no children. Just made different lifestyle choices to others.

I agree, its down to your lifestyle choices.

You've used to being on £650+/day rates, had "8 years of constant end-to-end contracting", sometimes billing "8 days a week", but still needed a directors loan.

But, i don't see why your lifestyle choices meant not setting something aside for when the good times stop (as you should have expected would happen one day) and you now believe the government should step in.

Others have given you a good way out of this. The first thing is to pay off that directors loan. From there, the company is still in a net-negative asset position, and you have options from there

1. try to get that contract that lets you pay off the HMRC debts and the BBL
2. close down the company and hope that HMRC does not come after you for personally the VAT/CT (due to the way you've run the company finances), and that the BBL will just be written off with no liability falling back to you personally

[jayn200]

What makes you think I was referring to you? Self doubt? Rate envy? Not that £650 is a big rate in London.

650 is normal average mid experience level rate in finance but a very strong rate outside finance.

[Paralytic]

T As for paying myself from the loan, I'll do whatever it takes to survive this, just like I did the last crisis. If that means spending the CT and VAT as well, so be it. All it takes is one contract and it's the flick of a switch. c. £ 17k a month back into the account each and every month enables recovery.

I'm not judging you for it. You asked if HMRC could come after you for CT and VAT. How you run your company's financials has a bearing on that. If you made a conscious decision to extract monies you knew was due to HMRC, then I think the potential for that to happen increases.

[oliverson]

Errr... not very enviable at all....

But you keep thinking that.

What makes you think I was referring to you? Self doubt? Rate envy? Not that £650 is a big rate in London.

[oliverson]

I'm not going to join in with any bashing, the guy doesn't need it, & I wish him luck getting out of this hole.
But, given the high rates you've said you've had over the years, is it the case that you've over-exposed yourself with the 2 properties, &/or lifestyle?
I'm just a little surprised, from what you have told us, that your warchest is depleted & you're financially in the red, owing money left, right & centre, when, taking things at face value, you should be well in the black...or have I missed something?

I haven’t been on that rate the entire 8 years and the cost of generating it has meant significant accommodation and travel expenses seeing as I live 250 miles from London. It also took some time to recover from the financial crisis. So you see, all is not as it may seem.

[Lance]

I’m playing the same game as everybody else, it’s just that the numbers are a lot bigger.

Instead of having a pop at me for what I can only deduce is a perceived enviable lifestyle, go out and get the high rates yourself. And if you’re critical because I don’t have kids, nobody forced you to have them. And think of the hassle it is to keep 6 bedrooms and 5 bogs clean!

Errr... not very enviable at all....

But you keep thinking that.

[oliverson]

I’m playing the same game as everybody else, it’s just that the numbers are a lot bigger.

Instead of having a pop at me for what I can only deduce is a perceived enviable lifestyle, go out and get the high rates yourself. And if you’re critical because I don’t have kids, nobody forced you to have them. And think of the hassle it is to keep 6 bedrooms and 5 bogs clean!

[Lance]

Warchest from 8 years back to back £650/d contracting gone in 6months, with >50k debt - and no kids!?

yikes, you must live like a fecking rock star

better call saul

And spent enough time having a pop at parents with problems...... hard times are not as easy as they seem when you have to endure the yourself.

OP has my sympathy for the situation, but not for the reasons he got there.

[Lance]

I'm not going to join in with any bashing, the guy doesn't need it, & I wish him luck getting out of this hole.
But, given the high rates you've said you've had over the years, is it the case that you've over-exposed yourself with the 2 properties, &/or lifestyle?
I'm just a little surprised, from what you have told us, that your warchest is depleted & you're financially in the red, owing money left, right & centre, when, taking things at face value, you should be well in the black...or have I missed something?

You’ve not missed anything. It’s all been spent on additional properties.

The answer is simple.

[SteelyDan]

I'm not going to join in with any bashing, the guy doesn't need it, & I wish him luck getting out of this hole.
But, given the high rates you've said you've had over the years, is it the case that you've over-exposed yourself with the 2 properties, &/or lifestyle?
I'm just a little surprised, from what you have told us, that your warchest is depleted & you're financially in the red, owing money left, right & centre, when, taking things at face value, you should be well in the black...or have I missed something?