Reply to: Typical rates for chartered engineers ?

[sludgesurfer]

Degrees are worthless after 3 years of getting them


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

In a practical sense I agree. In fact, in a practical sense personally speaking they've never been of much use.

I do however know that I wouldn't have made the interview list for any of the roles I applied for in the first ten years post-graduation without them.

[GhostofTarbera]

Degrees are worthless after 3 years of getting them


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[sludgesurfer]

My experience of engineering rates in the oil and gas industry is similar. From an offshore perspective - there's one regular contract position onboard who I'd say is on more than £1000/day. I'd say the rest sit in a wide range from £350-£900. Several positions command decent retention payments to see the project through to completion.

We have one specialist who I see once every few months for a few days at a time. He (reputedly) charges £3000/d, insists on getting 2 flight seats booked for him to Aberdeen and refuses to do a medical but the client management give him dispensation every time. He is very much the exception and the operation literally stops without his troubleshooting ability (and the parts he brings with him).

I'd say £1000 pd for an onshore position in an office in Aberdeen is nowadays pretty rare. In my experience this was fairly common in 2012-2013 when senior drilling engineers could command that amount then the downturn hit - now they are contracted in at around £650/d.

Overseas is different. In my last staff gig overseas in a pisshole in West Africa, I'd gross £150k with a good FS pension. At that time, we had a few contractors on the books at $3000/day onshore in the field office and a couple on $3500 offshore. I suspect these rates will have come down markedly.

I have a couple of degrees but not chartered. In field operations at least, I don't see many O&G clients asking for it.

[Jings]

So... my post seems to have stured up the "are you mad / not read up about IR35 / are you a rocket scientist" whirlpool lol.
No, I'm not mad, just in a steady job on 50ish K that I know will go up to about 60k just by be not killing anyone in the meantime. So, though I was flattered to be somewhat hounded for my very very particular skill set (massively narrow but literally a handful of people will have the knowledge) I thought I could ask for more.
Also, my present employer very occasionally lets me do consultancy and it is £1000/day (I get half), so I just wondered...
I asked the agency about a higher rate, they said they'd see, but as they haven't got back to me I assume they'd rather employ a couple of people or someone with half the knowledge and save some money.
It seems people on here think 90k contracting V 52k perm is a no brainer, but seriously, once all the costs are added on plus the fact you need to save a buffer for bench time taken out if that, mortgate hassle etc it doesn't look that attractive.
The IR35 rules seem so subjective I don't know if it would affect me. As I read it it was meant to capture those gaming the system, not genuine contractors.

But thanks fir the thoughts, very useful . Unless they up their offer i'll be clocking in as usual for my fairly low stress job

Couple of things mate:

1 - I am among the ones that never said 1k/day was impossible... it is possible from my own experience but highly dependent on the circumstances.

2 - if your "employer" is paying you 50k pa but the occasional 1k/day which is split 50/50.... come on! That's just a scam. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. No way is a 50k pa role equivalent to a 1k/pd role.

That said.... good luck!! I have virtually never posted on this board because it seems to be (self-imposed) limited to IT folks. But rest assured, there are very many LtdCo people in other (proper!) engineering roles. I have been Ltd in one form or another, in various countries, for over 20 years.

[Paralytic]

It seems people on here think 90k contracting V 52k perm is a no brainer, but seriously, once all the costs are added on plus the fact you need to save a buffer for bench time taken out if that, mortgate hassle etc it doesn't look that attractive.

That's not how I read responses. I read them as "that's the market, its up to you".

Also, my present employer very occasionally lets me do consultancy and it is £1000/day (I get half), so I just wondered...

I'm now wondering why thought that people who don't know you might pay you double what your current employer, who does know the quality of your work, pays you? It sounds like the external offer is market rate for what you do.

[fatbadger]

So... my post seems to have stured up the "are you mad / not read up about IR35 / are you a rocket scientist" whirlpool lol.
No, I'm not mad, just in a steady job on 50ish K that I know will go up to about 60k just by be not killing anyone in the meantime. So, though I was flattered to be somewhat hounded for my very very particular skill set (massively narrow but literally a handful of people will have the knowledge) I thought I could ask for more.
Also, my present employer very occasionally lets me do consultancy and it is £1000/day (I get half), so I just wondered...
I asked the agency about a higher rate, they said they'd see, but as they haven't got back to me I assume they'd rather employ a couple of people or someone with half the knowledge and save some money.
It seems people on here think 90k contracting V 52k perm is a no brainer, but seriously, once all the costs are added on plus the fact you need to save a buffer for bench time taken out if that, mortgate hassle etc it doesn't look that attractive.
The IR35 rules seem so subjective I don't know if it would affect me. As I read it it was meant to capture those gaming the system, not genuine contractors.

But thanks fir the thoughts, very useful . Unless they up their offer i'll be clocking in as usual for my fairly low stress job

[Jings]

I work in the engineering industry (offshore oil & gas, wind) on major engineering and construction projects ($1bn+ projects).

GBP 1,000/day is definitely top-end. I've had higher than that in the past but that was in pretty demanding conditions (remote and challenging location, long rotations away from home etc etc)

Chances of getting 1k/day are slim, especially if you are looking at a Mon-Fri cushy office job in a nice place like London, even less anywhere else in the UK.

My current dayrate, including benefits (client provides apartment, flights, per diem etc) works out around GBP 850/day (Europe-based). However I've got almost 30 years experience.

Don't turn away 500-600/day jobs, because there are plenty folk out there who will work for 400-500/day while you're on the bench waiting for the magical 1,000/day job.

[CoolCat]

Chartered status has been devalued by all the piss poor military officers getting it.

The MOD is stuffed full of retired military officers, apparently chartered, who are completely and utterly clueless. All given the job on the old boys network.

Makes "chartered" a laughing stock.

[dsc]

I'm a control systems engineer and from what I've seen £50ph is a fairly good rate, anything above £60 is bloody marvelous and hardly ever happens, you'd need a very specific skillset for that and even then you need to know the right people to get your foot through the door and it would most likely last 3-6months. Top level for this sort of positions if you are a permie would be 50-60k, so your dilemma of £50ph vs 50k seems about right.

Also ditto on the comments re suggesting £800-1000, imho they would think you are bonkers, no way is that achievable (regardless how much I'd want it). Maybe 10-15 years ago would get you that in the O&G industry working in Saudi, but not now based in the UK.

Last job add from BAE I've seen was £53ph and that was in the middle of nowhere, required SC clearance and British nationality (nuclear related work).

One last thing, chartered imho means nothing if they clash you against someone with 20 years of experience (imho it adds nothing overall but I understand some people might disagree with this).

T.

[northernladuk]

Sorry, I didn’t write my post very clearly.
What I meant was “Yes it’s possible to get those rates in some fields of contracting with the right experience”
With a separate question of “What sort of chartered engineer are you?”

Ah well yes. That's true.

[WTFH]

I'd disagree with the esteemed Mr WTFH. No chance are you going to get that money. If you your base perm is 50k a year how can you delivery anything like enough l to warrant 800+ a day. Not a chance.

Sorry, I didn’t write my post very clearly.
What I meant was “Yes it’s possible to get those rates in some fields of contracting with the right experience”
With a separate question of “What sort of chartered engineer are you?”

[cojak]

I’m not sure how many chartered engineers are on here - although a few of us are qualified as mech or sparks. But yes, £100+ per hour is achievable after a few years of contracting experience, some skill and a lot of luck.

Good question - Mechanical, Electrical or Software?

[cojak]

Hello

Second post - first was about 50K salary V £50/hour (basically decided it's way too low to jump ship as after pension, 6 week hols, bank hols, pension, accounts expences, life ins, sicness ins etc etc it's a bit more yes, but also risky and far more stressful, so I'd want a bigger carrot to do it).

However, now I've starting reading up about the contractor life I am still interested but I wonder does anyone here get anything like £1000/day i.e. £125/hour, which is what I'd consider truly worthwhile. Or even just £100/hour which what I think would be my personal minimum?

Basically, what is typical? Perhaps this will help others who are thinking about the leap.

cheers

£1000 a day? What are you, a rocket scientist?

Good luck getting that from the likes of Rolls-Royce or BAE Systems...

[pr1]

Hello

Second post - first was about 50K salary V £50/hour (basically decided it's way too low to jump ship as after pension, 6 week hols, bank hols, pension, accounts expences, life ins, sicness ins etc etc it's a bit more yes, but also risky and far more stressful, so I'd want a bigger carrot to do it).

However, now I've starting reading up about the contractor life I am still interested but I wonder does anyone here get anything like £1000/day i.e. £125/hour, which is what I'd consider truly worthwhile. Or even just £100/hour which what I think would be my personal minimum?

Basically, what is typical? Perhaps this will help others who are thinking about the leap.

cheers

In your role/what you do, if you were charging £1000 PER DAY you need to know you can be contributing something like £1500 of value to that project PER DAY! for it to be worth the client paying you, do you realistically think you could do that knowing what you know about your skills?

Most people baulk at spending £1000 on a new mattress they'll sleep on every night for 5-10 years, you're talking about getting someone to pay you that for your services PER DAY!

It's a lot of money - I'm in engineering and I only know of one person who's ever been any where near that

In my opinion the best way to make that kind of money is to double and triple bubble £50/h // £400/d work, but you need to be good at juggling

[edison]

Hello

Second post - first was about 50K salary V £50/hour (basically decided it's way too low to jump ship as after pension, 6 week hols, bank hols, pension, accounts expences, life ins, sicness ins etc etc it's a bit more yes, but also risky and far more stressful, so I'd want a bigger carrot to do it).

However, now I've starting reading up about the contractor life I am still interested but I wonder does anyone here get anything like £1000/day i.e. £125/hour, which is what I'd consider truly worthwhile. Or even just £100/hour which what I think would be my personal minimum?

Basically, what is typical? Perhaps this will help others who are thinking about the leap.

cheers

I'd disagree with the esteemed Mr WTFH. No chance are you going to get that money. If you your base perm is 50k a year how can you delivery anything like enough l to warrant 800+ a day. Not a chance.

The days of those rates are long gone. You'd need to be the very best in your field to be near that and the chances of finding end to end gigs are very slim bringing the entire package down.

You need to do a bit of your own research, particularly with us being IT guys. I had a very very brief search and I couldn't find much for you let alone at those rates.

The whole market is about to fall apart as well so don't forget to consider that.

I'd say take your Rose tinted glasses off, don't get giddy about the money and go research.

We see this type of post regularly on here and I generally think that people of that calibre do not need to ask on (IT) forums.

Exactly as NLUK says, there is a big mismatch between a £50k salary and £800-1000/day contract rates.

As a comparison, in the IT world, at £1000/day you would need to be in one of the handful of most senior manager level roles in the IT department like an IT Director/Head of IT or Senior Programme Manager. These would be roles on a salary of say, £120-140k.

Even at these sorts of rates, the IR35 changes are having an impact. I know three IT Directors who typically get £900-1200/day all looking at going back to perm.

There is more than one rule of thumb. One I haven't seen anyone mention for a while is take the annual salary, divide by 1000 to give an hourly rate and multiply by 7.5. However, in the current climate with IR35 changes pending, such rules of thumb can only be a starting point.