Reply to: Non-Billable Additional hours

[fidot]

It's basically just saying you can't charge overtime for working longer than a normal day.

ie a professional working day

[FrontEnder]

All my contracts have had something with similar wording. It's basically just saying you can't charge overtime for working longer than a normal day.

[Paralytic]

If a client wants it all the time then kindly tell them they need to pay per hour anything over 7.5 hours. Your business dictates the working hours not the client. You don't work for the client you work for your business and abide by it's policies. Some times as a favour to the client I would work out of hours to get a job done to meet business obligations.

This.

Be flexible, but don't let them take the piss. They won't mean it, but they'll treat you like an employee unless you make it clear from the outset that is not the case.

[cosmic]

Also don't forget you run a business. Time is money. Working those extra hours dilutes your hourly take. Yes if work 10 hours in a day than really your day rate is actually a lot less hence why I work a max of 7.5 hours a day which includes 30min lunch.

If a client wants it all the time then kindly tell them they need to pay per hour anything over 7.5 hours. Your business dictates the working hours not the client. You don't work for the client you work for your business and abide by it's policies. Some times as a favour to the client I would work out of hours to get a job done to meet business obligations.

[psychocandy]

So, how you take this depends on what camp you are in. A professional working day, to me, means you do what needs to be done. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. As a professional you flex to suit.

Now if you are a 9 to 5'er and won't do a minute over then you aren't going to like this. I imagine Pyschocandy will be on in a minute with his tales of the client taking the piss and asking him to stay and do a bit extra work because the pressure is on.

To me, it means you do what you need to. Sometimes you put a bit more in but conversely it means you've got the flexibility to leave earlier when there isn't so much to do or when it suits.

To complete cynic it could be a red flag you'll be asked to do a host of extra hours on a regular basis and generally have the piss taken out of you. It can happen as PC will no doubt attest. That sentence, however, describes how every single on of my gigs has panned out and it's worked perfectly for me. I think the fact they've put 'additional hours' in the description is what get's peoples feathers ruffled when in reality we've all done it without question when it's not in black and white if that makes sense.



Eh? Surely if it doesn't have set hours it means it CAN have additional. Set hours means you can't. You got that the wrong way around?

Why get rid of it? It's better for IR35 to have it in rather than set hours and really it doesn't make any difference what they put on the contract, it's what the client wants so you'll have to do some digging at interview time.

Actually NLUK I do agree with you on the PWD thing as long as its not a piss take and it works both ways. Not all clients are equal as you probably know too.

For me PWD is an "average" of 7.5/8 hours a day. I do same as the permies pretty much. More than that i.e. want contractors to do 10 hours because they get paid more (I've seen that happen) and you can get some other mug.

(Never ask the agent either about standard hours - they'll lie. If you work 10 hours a day and have no life the agent wont care but they'll be happy that their client is happy with the contractor they provided who works these long hours for free).

Current client is brill. If there is weekend work on they actually politely ask me if I can do it which is good. I'm more inclined to make myself available then. Those of us with kids or partners who work shifts (inc weekends) will understand how this works.

I've had clients in the past though who pretty much think they own you. Want something done on a Saturday then we'll TELL you on the Thursday. Nope not me.

Same with clients where they need to authorise weekend work with the agency. Please email them and authorise this so I get paid for the day IN ADVANCE. Otherwise, you won't see me there.

[BrilloPad]

Its really good of you not to bill your client for that time

Unlike solicitors who spend half their life travelling to double book - one client for the travelling and another client for the work they do while travelling. Sometimes they book more hours than are in a day....

[Paralytic]

Yup I was traveling from a clients office at that time

Its really good of you not to bill your client for that time

[cosmic]

...posted at 11.28am

Yup I was traveling from a clients office at that time

[pr1]

I'm currently local. In for 7am out for 2.30pm. Was a 3 month contract but ended up 1.5 years finishing next month.

I do work when in, No fiddling about and on odd times work remotely for 1 or two hours extra.

For me I run my own business. No one can tell me what hours I can work if i need to do more and where i can work as that's my business call not clients. When I do work though I work flat out without wasting half day talking to others like permies do. I'm in for a job with set project timescales to complete by.

...posted at 11.28am

[cosmic]

I'm currently local. In for 7am out for 2.30pm. Was a 3 month contract but ended up 1.5 years finishing next month.

I do work when in, No fiddling about and on odd times work remotely for 1 or two hours extra.

For me I run my own business. No one can tell me what hours I can work if i need to do more and where i can work as that's my business call not clients. When I do work though I work flat out without wasting half day talking to others like permies do. I'm in for a job with set project timescales to complete by.

[ladymuck]

Some days I do feck all, this week I've just completed the third 10 hour day in a row. I am in agreement with NLUK that this isn't really an issue unless you make it one. It's probably an honest assessment that sometimes they're going to need a bit more time.

It properly becomes an issue if it happens every day.

[northernladuk]

Hi the actual wording is:

Services are to be provided on a professional day rate basis which will incorporate reasonable additional hours as required (not billable)

So, how you take this depends on what camp you are in. A professional working day, to me, means you do what needs to be done. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. As a professional you flex to suit.

Now if you are a 9 to 5'er and won't do a minute over then you aren't going to like this. I imagine Pyschocandy will be on in a minute with his tales of the client taking the piss and asking him to stay and do a bit extra work because the pressure is on.

To me, it means you do what you need to. Sometimes you put a bit more in but conversely it means you've got the flexibility to leave earlier when there isn't so much to do or when it suits.

To complete cynic it could be a red flag you'll be asked to do a host of extra hours on a regular basis and generally have the piss taken out of you. It can happen as PC will no doubt attest. That sentence, however, describes how every single on of my gigs has panned out and it's worked perfectly for me. I think the fact they've put 'additional hours' in the description is what get's peoples feathers ruffled when in reality we've all done it without question when it's not in black and white if that makes sense.

A professional day doesn't have set hours, so it can't have additional ones, I would've thought.

Eh? Surely if it doesn't have set hours it means it CAN have additional. Set hours means you can't. You got that the wrong way around?

Why get rid of it? It's better for IR35 to have it in rather than set hours and really it doesn't make any difference what they put on the contract, it's what the client wants so you'll have to do some digging at interview time.

[PerfectStorm]

A professional day doesn't have set hours, so it can't have additional ones, I would've thought.

Do you get your contracts reviewed? QDOS probably would've got rid of that. If not, put the amendment in with their suggestions.

[zonkkk]

Hi the actual wording is:

Services are to be provided on a professional day rate basis which will incorporate reasonable additional hours as required (not billable)

Reasonable is very vague. If you want to do a bit extra fine, if not just say you are not available to do overtime, when asked.

It's just contract talk. It all comes down to the relationship you develop with the end client, and whoever signs your timesheets.

I wouldn't sweat over it.

[onlyjoe]

Non-billable additional hours

I have seen these before, you're not agreeing to actually do the hours; just agreeing to what the pay rate is if you do the extra hours.

Hi the actual wording is:

Services are to be provided on a professional day rate basis which will incorporate reasonable additional hours as required (not billable)