Reply to: 'Client has cut rate'

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Not my experience. I've gone to interviews on the understanding that i wanted to find out more about the role before committing to anything. You can accept an interview without accepting the day rate. eg, "The rate isn't quite match what i'd like but it sounds a really interesting role and I'd like to find out more".

Obviously if the rate on offer and the rate you're after are miles apart, there's little point. But, it does depend on the competitiveness of the market you're working in and whether you have the skills/experience that means the client is willing to stretch that little bit further to get the candidate they want.

Problem is the negotiations for money go through the agent, who will lie his arse off to get his commission.

Firstly the role is usually advertised at a rate, e.g. 350-400 or 400pd, and in my experience when I get a role, it's accurate. They put you forward at a rate you suggest, the obvious thing to do with 350-400 is say 400 but the agent will put you forward at 400 and you might lose to competition.

On the other hand, the agent might want you to go for 400 so he gets a bigger cut.

If you have the interview it doesn't matter if they are ready to worship the ground you walk on if their budget is too low then you're scuppered. Unless as I say you talk to them right then and there about money matters, which is sensitive as the person interviewing you might not even know what your day rate is gonna be.

Likewise if the agent is taking a huge chunk for themselves (e.g. £100 comission on £400/day) and you ask for £450 even if the client is willing the agent may lie and say either no, thinking you'll accept anyway, or that they'll do £425 and push the client's rate up. Or they'll just bin you off and find someone else who will do it for £350 (hence the £350-400 range), which is megaprofit.

They don't give a tulip if the replacement is total garbage at the job, they only care about the profit.

[Paralytic]

The reality is that the agent will tell the client you're being difficult or that you've found a contract elsewhere, or that you've decided the rate wasn't enough, basically they'll throw you under a bus.

Not my experience. I've gone to interviews on the understanding that i wanted to find out more about the role before committing to anything. You can accept an interview without accepting the day rate. eg, "The rate isn't quite match what i'd like but it sounds a really interesting role and I'd like to find out more".

Obviously if the rate on offer and the rate you're after are miles apart, there's little point. But, it does depend on the competitiveness of the market you're working in and whether you have the skills/experience that means the client is willing to stretch that little bit further to get the candidate they want.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Agreed. I wouldn't stall, but ask the agent to put you forward, without committing to the day rate. Impress the client and make it the agents problem to match your expected rate.

The reality is that the agent will tell the client you're being difficult or that you've found a contract elsewhere, or that you've decided the rate wasn't enough, basically they'll throw you under a bus.

Probably your best bet if you think the agent is being greedy as opposed to baiting you in with a fake day rate, and you aren't gonna accept the lower rate, is to just tell the client the agent changed the rate half way through, which either happens because they misadvertised deliberately or because they're trying to claim money for themselves, and you just want to ask if it's a fixed margin agreement (even if you know).

Then again clients are tulip, my contract ended and I have no clause in my contract about going direct but the client reckons it's too much hassle :

[Paralytic]

In the meantime, the agent is showing other CVs to the client

Agreed. I wouldn't stall, but ask the agent to put you forward, without committing to the day rate. Impress the client and make it the agents problem to match your expected rate.

[PCTNN]

I'm currently stalling despite texts from agent.

In the meantime, the agent is showing other CVs to the client

[perplexed]

Not sure what any of that means tbh but...

....to the others, thanks again for input.

I'm currently stalling despite texts from agent. I think he thinks he's got some easy money so pestering me now. Have been asked to return an agreed representation email at the revised rate, so once I respond it's sort of acceptance & agreement, in theory. I've not responded to it.

I'm liking this 'I would stall and say you will discuss the rate once you've met the client and understood more about the project and their expectations' as, in discussion with agent, the role is more complex than the fag packet job spec which was posted. I'm guessing though, if I go down that route, there'll be no interview forthcoming at all. I'll see how it pans out...if it pans out.

It means your contract is with the agent not the end client.

Your day rate negotiations are with agent not end client.

You hardball with agent not client.

Agent trying it on? Deal with it.

[SteelyDan]

"Client has cut rate, that's a shame. Still, I'm sure you'll work something out. Not sure why it's my problem per se, I don't have a deal with the client, you do..."

Not sure what any of that means tbh but...

....to the others, thanks again for input.

I'm currently stalling despite texts from agent. I think he thinks he's got some easy money so pestering me now. Have been asked to return an agreed representation email at the revised rate, so once I respond it's sort of acceptance & agreement, in theory. I've not responded to it.

I'm liking this 'I would stall and say you will discuss the rate once you've met the client and understood more about the project and their expectations' as, in discussion with agent, the role is more complex than the fag packet job spec which was posted. I'm guessing though, if I go down that route, there'll be no interview forthcoming at all. I'll see how it pans out...if it pans out.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Just agree then the day before you're supposed to start, tell em that you've increased your rate by £50.

They won't agree out of principal but it's always enjoyable to stick one to them. The agent's stress level will go through the roof.

[Paralytic]

I would stall and say you will discuss the rate once you've met the client and understood more about the project and their expectations. Depending on how things go when you meet them, it may be possible to directly enquire with the client as to their rate expectations even if you can't discuss actual numbers. If the client are keen, there may be wiggle room.

+1 on this. Don't commit to the rate but say you want to hear more about the role first at the interview. Impress the client so they tell the agency they want you.

If you get yourself into that position, you can then go back to agency and say you believe the market rate for the role is the original rate and that's what you want. If you've done your job at the interview, the problem is theirs to solve if they want the commission. If not, perhaps you're not worth the day rate you're after

As always, there's a risk with bargaining, so you'll have to be willing to miss out. In that case, sue them for misrepresentation.

[ladymuck]

I would stall and say you will discuss the rate once you've met the client and understood more about the project and their expectations. Depending on how things go when you meet them, it may be possible to directly enquire with the client as to their rate expectations even if you can't discuss actual numbers. If the client are keen, there may be wiggle room.

If you can't afford to live on the rate being offered then you need to consider whether earning something is better than nothing and seek to jump ship as soon as possible. In that scenario, make sure your contract has favourable exit clauses.

[BolshieBastard]

The fly in the oinment here is, you can (eventually) tell the agent you're no longer interested but, who's to say the next advertised role will not end up the same ie advertised at a rate to wind you in then agent says client has dropped the rate?

Never ceases to amaze me agencies always managed to report increased profits when the market was against the contractor, fewer advertised roles and lower rates etc. Of course, we all know who took the hit during those times.

Situations like this come down to how much you need the role. If you 'need' it, you havent got much wriggle room. Id never recommend going back and asking for just 50% of the reduction because if the agent is trying to line their pocket, the 50% cut is probably what he was hoping for. In these circumstances, if it was me, Id aim for just a £10 'cut' so you get £40.

[perplexed]

"Client has cut rate, that's a shame. Still, I'm sure you'll work something out. Not sure why it's my problem per se, I don't have a deal with the client, you do..."

[BlasterBates]

If this is before the interview it isn't a negotiation, that is what they're offering. You would have to play hard ball for several days possibly weeks before they'd raise it.

[PCTNN]

Yep, good points all, thanks...not interviewed yet but just instantly thinking agent lining pockets (cynical moi, etc.)...but take the point of advertising higher just to get ppl to apply.
Yep, could do with the work tbh as market is dire (still), but the -£50 does make it a lower rate than I'm used to; it's doable but only just. I can walk away, but as there's a dearth of work at the moment, thought I'd sound counsel out on here before jumping in, or outright rejecting.

If you've not been interviewed yet, chances are that if you say no to the rate cut, that interview is never going to happen.

Everyone has in their mind a minimum rate they'd accept, so just ask yourself what yours is.

My opinion, take the cut but try to squeeze in some non monetary perks like wfh 1-2 days a week for example.

[Paralytic]

Yep, could do with the work tbh as market is dire (still), but the -£50 does make it a lower rate than I'm used to; it's doable but only just. I can walk away, but as there's a dearth of work at the moment, thought I'd sound counsel out on here before jumping in, or outright rejecting.

I'd be tempted to progress with this opportunity but also look for others in the meantime. If you get an offer, and you don't have another offer, then you can make a decision then. Remember, its not just them interviewing you.