Anyone doing interim management roles?

[edison]

are they all self classified?

Fair point, I think they’re all in the private sector, so probably.

[Lance]

I know plenty of people who do the same as me, not one AFAIK has been classed inside IR35.

are they all self classified?

[edison]

I think he's hinting at the OP being a 'Controlling person' rather than the standard IR35 tests. If he is then I think he's wrong but it could make for an interesting discussion.

The thing that struck me about the OP's original post is I wouldn't expect someone in such a position to post something like this if you get my meaning. If you are in such a lofty position to be directing and entire clients IT policy I wouldn't expect them to be posting for other peoples opinions on a bulletin board.

I'm not so big headed that I don't believe I can learn from other people's experience!

Some good points raised by posters above. My situation (IMO) is maybe slightly different. When I do leadership roles, it's normally around some sort of restructuring or turnaround. I have specific deliverables in my contract which is IR35 reviewed by QDOS. In my current role, I am one of several divisonal heads of IT around the world that report to the global CIO. I have pretty much been told I have autonomy to do almost anything I want so I'm confident on MOO, SDC and substitution. I'm also not a Board Director or a formal Office Holder.

In addition, there are specific things I am not allowed to do that permanent staff who work in my team do, such as formally approve the budget, raise purchase orders and approve invoices etc.

For appraisals, a permanent member of staff is doing them but I have some input. And so on.

For a previous gig, I had to build an entire new team and help recruit my replacement; again my contract had specific deliverables for this. As soon as I had built the team and a replacement hire was in the pipeline, I was out of the door.

Who's to say IR35 reform in the budget will make it much more likely I be classed as inside IR35 in future? I have the small comfort that if that is the case, there will be more scope to increase my day rate to compensate as the sort of positions I fill are less likely to be filled by a consultancy etc.

A lot of organisations are looking to interims now for short term gigs but it is a niche hence why day rates can be so high. I know plenty of people who do the same as me, not one AFAIK has been classed inside IR35.

[Lance]

Despite what a contract might say or working practises, an interim role feels like being inside.
I know a job title isn’t something that necessarily means a lot, but the nature of being an interim manager suggests that you are a stop gap between one permie leaving and before they can find another. I personally would not fancy trying to argue that my role is different to theirs if it is truly interim.
And if it is actually different I’d not want the word ‘inteim’ used anywhere.

[SimonMac]

This is an interesting question.

My current gig has a contractor in as an interim Head of IT and having spoken to him he has said his contract (checked by QDOS) puts him outside IR35, he even has a signed Confirmation of arrangements listing a specific set of projects and deliverables. I have never come across a Confirmation of Arrangements before, so not sure what real impact this has (i did have a quick google mind).

However he is clearly involved in recruitment, dismissals, appraisals, budgeting, team meetings - surely all of which would put him inside of IR35?

WLB

That is a great example of where working practices trump what ever is in the contract. To be fully clear of IR35 you need a reviewed contract and the working practices to match

[malvolio]

This is an interesting question.

My current gig has a contractor in as an interim Head of IT and having spoken to him he has said his contract (checked by QDOS) puts him outside IR35, he even has a signed Confirmation of arrangements listing a specific set of projects and deliverables. I have never come across a Confirmation of Arrangements before, so not sure what real impact this has (i did have a quick google mind).

However he is clearly involved in recruitment, dismissals, appraisals, budgeting, team meetings - surely all of which would put him inside of IR35?

WLB

I'll give good odds his contract would fail if tested in court, for the reasons I've already stated.

[gables]

I think he's hinting at the OP being a 'Controlling person' rather than the standard IR35 tests. If he is then I think he's wrong but it could make for an interesting discussion.

Yep, I was responding to vwdan's point of being guaranteed in IR35 by alluding to the OP being at such a senior position, and questioned would they really be under SDC, but not knowing is why I said 'maybe'. BUT having read Mal's points I can see how they would fall under IR35.

[WLB2018]

This is an interesting question.

My current gig has a contractor in as an interim Head of IT and having spoken to him he has said his contract (checked by QDOS) puts him outside IR35, he even has a signed Confirmation of arrangements listing a specific set of projects and deliverables. I have never come across a Confirmation of Arrangements before, so not sure what real impact this has (i did have a quick google mind).

However he is clearly involved in recruitment, dismissals, appraisals, budgeting, team meetings - surely all of which would put him inside of IR35?

WLB

[earningacrust]

Maybe not at director level, who'll be supervising, directing and controlling what you do? won't it you doing all that?

I'm an interim manager, currently "Head of IT" but last role was an "IT Director". All within IR35 but the day rate is increased to offset the costs compared with working outside IR35.

Unfortunately you still always report into someone. In my case, typically the CEO or CFO who are genuine office holders. They don't really direct/control what you do as such but you have to ensure that what your team does aligns with the overall strategy or objectives.

And despite being in this role, you need a great mix of perm and contract staff to work for you plus suppliers. They are the experts and I'm always asking for their opinions. I just have to run a lot of things at the same time and juggle various stakeholder, team, supplier and user views/demands!

[malvolio]

A controlling person is one holding a substantive post. So see my earlier post...

[northernladuk]

Maybe not at director level, who'll be supervising, directing and controlling what you do? won't it you doing all that?

I think he's hinting at the OP being a 'Controlling person' rather than the standard IR35 tests. If he is then I think he's wrong but it could make for an interesting discussion.

The thing that struck me about the OP's original post is I wouldn't expect someone in such a position to post something like this if you get my meaning. If you are in such a lofty position to be directing and entire clients IT policy I wouldn't expect them to be posting for other peoples opinions on a bulletin board.

[malvolio]

I was trying to tell IMs that they need to look at IR35 quite carefully 1 years ago and more. The usual response was "I don't see how it can apply to me"...

There are two issues here that they cheerfully ignore. Firstly the whole question of D&C, since if you are acting in a managerial role within a company it is difficult to see how D&C would not apply, especially if you have staff responsibility, since you would have to adhere to company policy across the board. Secondly, if you are holding a substantive post (i.e. one mandated in the company's Articles), as a lot of IMs are doing, while being a director of another company - as most IMs are - then you have to take your remuneration from that engagement net of PAYE and NICs (which is why IPSE's directors, for example, get paid net).

Of course they could all be adhering properly to the IR35 and related taxation rules perfectly. What, though, are the odds...

IMs are not a different group. They remain freelance contractors in all but name and should be using the same rules and suffering the same issues. So who's going to tell them?

[gables]

No, but I'd love to hit that point. Pretty much guaranteed to be in IR35, though, no?

Maybe not at director level, who'll be supervising, directing and controlling what you do? won't it you doing all that?

[vwdan]

No, but I'd love to hit that point. Pretty much guaranteed to be in IR35, though, no?

[edison]

Anyone here doing interim management roles as opposed to pure contractor roles? Say, CIO/Head of IT/IT Director level?

Be interested to hear your experiences. Market seems buoyant.

I’m having a lot of fun in a new interim Head of IT role. Sounds strange but I’ve effectively been ‘promoted’ 3 times since I left a permie job 5 years ago. I don’t know why I bothered with all that ‘career climbing’ stuff before!