Reply to: Broken self billing system what are my options

[northernladuk]

I don't think it's for the contractor's benefit at all. Just imagine the mess if 10,000 contractors working for some huge govt client sent in the ~10,000 differently formatted (and coffee-stained, and wrong) invoices in every week/month and some poor sod had to work through them all.

This. Agents do not put systems and processes in just to do us a favour.

[amanwhoisquiet]

Yeah, self billing is just an agency doing you a favour

I don't think it's for the contractor's benefit at all. Just imagine the mess if 10,000 contractors working for some huge govt client sent in the ~10,000 differently formatted (and coffee-stained, and wrong) invoices in every week/month and some poor sod had to work through them all.

[RyanDS]

To be fair it is never enforced. I've worked in recruitment (back office) for 20 years and we have always self billed whatever agency I have been with. Even when we have had HMRC audits this was just ignored as long as not abused. One of the few times HMRC just accept the situation on the ground and don't care about the paperwork trail.

[Lance]

Ahem:

If you are a VAT registered supplier
Setting up a self-billing arrangement
If one of your customers wants to set up a self-billing arrangement with you, they’ll ask you to agree to this in writing. If you agree, they’ll give you a self-billing agreement to sign.

The terms of the agreement are a matter between you and your customer, but there are certain conditions you’ll both have to meet to make sure you comply with VAT regulations.

For VAT purposes you’ll have to do all of the following:

sign and keep a copy of the self-billing agreement
agree not to issue any sales invoices to your customer for any transaction during the period of the agreement
agree to accept the self-billing invoices that your customer issues
tell your customer at once if you change your VAT registration number, deregister from VAT, or transfer your business as a going concern

I stand corrected.
Odd though as my last contract was self-billing and no such agreement was signed.
I still raised invoices in FreeAgent though just didn't send them.

[RyanDS]

Bulltulip.

Ahem:

If you are a VAT registered supplier
Setting up a self-billing arrangement
If one of your customers wants to set up a self-billing arrangement with you, they’ll ask you to agree to this in writing. If you agree, they’ll give you a self-billing agreement to sign.

The terms of the agreement are a matter between you and your customer, but there are certain conditions you’ll both have to meet to make sure you comply with VAT regulations.

For VAT purposes you’ll have to do all of the following:

sign and keep a copy of the self-billing agreement
agree not to issue any sales invoices to your customer for any transaction during the period of the agreement
agree to accept the self-billing invoices that your customer issues
tell your customer at once if you change your VAT registration number, deregister from VAT, or transfer your business as a going concern

[Lance]

Unfortunately in the self billing agreement the OP will have specifically agreed not to raise invoices for the services covered by the agreement - it is part of the standard legal wording that HMRC insists on.

Bulltulip.

[simes]

Yeah, self billing is just an agency doing you a favour and keeping things in a way that is accurate to their records, but I doubt it's legally binding that you must use it in all circumstances

Indeed.

And if the OP wants, he can draw up his own timesheet, get his Mgr to sign it and send it in with an invoice. Job done.

[mike67]

Can you not just send them an invoice?

Unfortunately in the self billing agreement the OP will have specifically agreed not to raise invoices for the services covered by the agreement - it is part of the standard legal wording that HMRC insists on. Agree with the suggestion to raise it informally with the client and hope that they will put pressure on the agency. Otherwise you have to start getting shirty with the agency who are in breach of their contract with you as they will have said they will raise self billing invoices for work supplied.

[PerfectStorm]

Can you not just send them an invoice?

I see this a lot where clients dictate how they want to be invoiced, even down to systems that charge for their use. Surely any kind of invoice is as equally binding? I send you an invoice, you pay it - it doesn't matter what format it's in. Or am I missing something?

Yeah, self billing is just an agency doing you a favour and keeping things in a way that is accurate to their records, but I doubt it's legally binding that you must use it in all circumstances

[pauldee]

Can you not just send them an invoice?

I see this a lot where clients dictate how they want to be invoiced, even down to systems that charge for their use. Surely any kind of invoice is as equally binding? I send you an invoice, you pay it - it doesn't matter what format it's in. Or am I missing something?

[Old Greg]

Exactly.

[luimneach2005]

And as you appear to be from Limerick, you presumably have persuasive relatives who can put the frighteners on them.

[WordIsBond]

but as you've not been paid I'd be inclined to cross that bridge.

Definitely! They are about to lose their contractor, through no fault of your own or theirs. They are the ones in a position to apply real pressure.

I'd just tell them that XYZ Agency is X days in arrears on their payments to you, that they are telling you it is a timesheet problem but timesheet problems don't pay your bills, and it may end up being a problem for your ability to continue in the contract if it continues. You wanted them to be aware of it.

[Old Greg]

My agency uses a self billing worksheet system. It's not been working for the last four weeks and I have been unable to bill. My client is abroad so my outlays are high. There has been no movement forward. I need those payments and I need them quicker than 2-3 months. What options do I have to submit a backdated invoice?
The contract constrains me to the timesheet system but if there isn't a working timesheet system what's our rights to be paid?
I should mention there were delays at the start of this too of up to a month because of their new system. it's one of those agencies that charges you % to get your money earlier but they have delayed mine through their lack of service to the point it's become an issue.
HELP

And as you appear to be from Limerick, you presumably have persuasive relatives who can put the frighteners on them.

[Lance]

Agree with the IPSE assistance.
I'd also discuss with the client as the agency relationship is 2-way, and if they're having financial troubles the client need to be know. Strictly speaking you shouldn't discuss agency business with the client but as you've not been paid I'd be inclined to cross that bridge.