Originally posted by northernladuk
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Previously on "Personal bio requested for team presentation"
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Originally posted by SussexSeagull View PostDepends on the type of meeting. No problem with going to meetings that might cover what you are doing then move onto other things but I refuse point blank to go to meetings where they discuss the long term future of the company.
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Originally posted by Lance View PostI go and don't say much. They don't go on my time sheet, and are not on any schedule or invoice.
If ever challenged it is simply a case of 'in case any H&S updates or governance/compliance changes I need to know about'.
I may have it wrong but I also consider it bad business to be seen to refuse these.
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Originally posted by SussexSeagull View PostProblem is that I am finding more and more than contractors are happy to go along to (non project related) team meetings and the like and when you refuse to go you look miserable and uncooperative.
I am sure it is taking into consideration come renewal time so you are left with the choice of trying to stay out of IR35 or taking the risk to keep the client happier.
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Originally posted by SussexSeagull View PostProblem is that I am finding more and more than contractors are happy to go along to (non project related) team meetings and the like and when you refuse to go you look miserable and uncooperative.
I am sure it is taking into consideration come renewal time so you are left with the choice of trying to stay out of IR35 or taking the risk to keep the client happier.
If ever challenged it is simply a case of 'in case any H&S updates or governance/compliance changes I need to know about'.
I may have it wrong but I also consider it bad business to be seen to refuse these.
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostThe issue is a little thing called IR35.
I am sure it is taking into consideration come renewal time so you are left with the choice of trying to stay out of IR35 or taking the risk to keep the client happier.
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Originally posted by Bee View PostI don't understand what’s the issue!!!
You can do a bio but it's not required for contractors, with is, they are given you an opportunity to feel part of the organization.
In my opinion this is very important to "break the ice".
In one of my previous contracts I was always invited for their activity days, happy hours... etc... and of course, introduce myself on my first day.
This is common sense for me.
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I don't understand what’s the issue!!!
You can do a bio but it's not required for contractors, with is, they are given you an opportunity to feel part of the organization.
In my opinion this is very important to "break the ice".
In one of my previous contracts I was always invited for their activity days, happy hours... etc... and of course, introduce myself on my first day.
This is common sense for me.
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Originally posted by malvolio View PostIt was defined in the SLS case rather nicely, where the contractor switched to being under IR35 when they stopped giving him SoWs at each renewal.
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Fascinating...
"Part and Parcel" basically means you can be shoved anywhere to do anything and the management don't have to give you a specific task to deliver. It doesn't mean you have to be some kind of superior entity divorced from the people around you, merely that you have a specific role to fulfil and can refuse any other one.
It was defined in the SLS case rather nicely, where the contractor switched to being under IR35 when they stopped giving him SoWs at each renewal.
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Originally posted by billybiro View PostExactly, but if you're an intrinsic part of a "team" containing permanent staff, and there's multiple people on that team performing largely the same role (developer, BA, PM etc.) then you are almost certainly delivering the same thing as one or more of the permies. Then what?
The notion that one should not be part of project team because one is a contractor is wide of the mark.
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Originally posted by billybiro View PostI'm not sure you are. Are other external professionals required to provide this kind of thing? Does the photocopier repair man have to provide a "bio" when he comes on site?...
1. It would be perfectly normal for the photocopier repair man to introduce himself to the permie he's working with, with a brief description of his skills, even if it's limited to "Hi, I'm Billy Biro, and I'm here to fix your photocopier". The bio is appropriate to the amount of interaction the external will have and the level to which he's working.
2. You'd find your work extremely difficult to do if you never introduced yourself, formally or informally, to the people you'll be working with. You're not coming in to clear a drain blockage - your work means you're obliged to interact rather more with the permies. Personal introduction is "part and parcel" of that.
3. The external consultants from big-co also give personal introductions to the project team.
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Originally posted by billybiro View PostExactly, but if you're an intrinsic part of a "team" containing permanent staff, and there's multiple people on that team performing largely the same role (developer, BA, PM etc.) then you are almost certainly delivering the same thing as one or more of the permies. Then what?
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Originally posted by WTFH View PostSorry, billy, I disagree. If a team is being assembled to deliver a project, then it's part of the project team. The copier repair man is not part of a project.
It would be a different kettle of fish if your contract says your job is to provide support for anything and you are not actually delivering anything different to the permies.
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Originally posted by billybiro View PostReally? So being a contractor on a team full of permies where you're doing essentially the same job as the permies (as is the case in an agile software development team, for example) is absolutely fine from IR35 perspective is it?
Please, do tell how you'd convince Hector that you're absolutely not part and parcel and should be considered to be entirely different from the permies that work for the same client.
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