Reply to: State of the Market

[SussexSeagull]

Prestige is questionable when:

• An MD rings you at 5pm as you are about to leave on a Friday and asks for the 45th iteration of PowerPoint slides (copy paste from Excel) which you know will take 3 hours and be binned on Monday
• Another MD calls a team meeting and says "everyone - we're gonna be working longer hours" after a 60 hour week
• You shut your eyes and see pivot tables
• You are being pinged by 4 people whilst trying to present on a call, with someone at your desk also trying to get your attention and your brain has turned to dust
• The only drinks arranged in your time is your own leaving drinks, which you probably organise yourself, as no one else has a nanosecond spare! People dutifully turn up then head back to the office

(source - 8 years of IB - some good, some like above)

As I said, I have never worked in IB but I was once involved in a project that was stretching into seven day weeks and I awarded myself a Saturday afternoon off to go to the football. In the pub beforehand I stood up to get a drink and instinctively went to press ctrl+alt+delete to lock my computer on the (computer free) table.

[hungry_hog]

Prestige is questionable when:

• An MD rings you at 5pm as you are about to leave on a Friday and asks for the 45th iteration of PowerPoint slides (copy paste from Excel) which you know will take 3 hours and be binned on Monday
• Another MD calls a team meeting and says "everyone - we're gonna be working longer hours" after a 60 hour week
• You shut your eyes and see pivot tables
• You are being pinged by 4 people whilst trying to present on a call, with someone at your desk also trying to get your attention and your brain has turned to dust
• The only drinks arranged in your time is your own leaving drinks, which you probably organise yourself, as no one else has a nanosecond spare! People dutifully turn up then head back to the office

(source - 8 years of IB - some good, some like above)

[oliverson]

I will have to bow with your knowledge of the sector but I have worked in various industries and fields over the last quarter of a century and I have never failed to pick it up to a greater or lesser degree. Unless IB is widely different to everything else I imagine I could have done the same.

Unfortunately at the best of times it was a hard thing to break into and we are far from in the best of times at the moment.

When I initially targeted the IB market I purchased a course to study. After about an hour it had bored the living tulip out of me so I sacked it off and took a different route. I still don't understand much of it today and I've not had a contract with an IB since 2014. Since then it's been asset management, insurance and one of the big 4 consultancies mainly. Shallow as I am, I do miss the prestige of contracting at an IB, though there's a lot more about it I don't miss.

And would you believe it's still raining out here in Spain? costa-del-tulip

[SussexSeagull]

My friend who spent many years at JPM said no one understands that stuff anyway! They just use words like PnL explain and wear a gilet.

When can I start?

[SussexSeagull]

It’s only Front Office roles, working with the traders, that are insistent on IB knowledge, and you can see why really. What trader wants to talk to a developer for example who has no clue about the terminology, the Greeks, etc. I’ve done FO roles but it wasn’t an issue in energy trading. Electricity is electricity after all, but that would be the exception really. All the other IB roles were mid/back office, where data is just data.

I will have to bow with your knowledge of the sector but I have worked in various industries and fields over the last quarter of a century and I have never failed to pick it up to a greater or lesser degree. Unless IB is widely different to everything else I imagine I could have done the same.

Unfortunately at the best of times it was a hard thing to break into and we are far from in the best of times at the moment.

[hungry_hog]

My friend who spent many years at JPM said no one understands that stuff anyway! They just use words like PnL explain and wear a gilet.

[oliverson]

I am guided by the advert and if they ask for, for example, Investment Banking experience then I wouldn't apply especially as they usually ask for experience of systems that are (presumably) IB specific.

Plus at the moment clients can be picky.

It’s only Front Office roles, working with the traders, that are insistent on IB knowledge, and you can see why really. What trader wants to talk to a developer for example who has no clue about the terminology, the Greeks, etc. I’ve done FO roles but it wasn’t an issue in energy trading. Electricity is electricity after all, but that would be the exception really. All the other IB roles were mid/back office, where data is just data.

[SussexSeagull]

I am guided by the advert and if they ask for, for example, Investment Banking experience then I wouldn't apply especially as they usually ask for experience of systems that are (presumably) IB specific.

Plus at the moment clients can be picky.

[sadkingbilly]

Hp sell hardware
IBM is consultancy and software

There is no conflict since Lenovo took over Thinkpads and HP offloaded their consultancy to HPE.

really?

I've made a fortune on illusions then.

https://www.ibm.com/z

[eek]

Just noticed that both IBM and HP are sponsoring Ferrari in F1. Very odd, to have conflicting brands on one global televisied supplier.

Perhaps it's a sign of the times that everyone is skint.

Hp sell hardware
IBM is consultancy and software

There is no conflict since Lenovo took over Thinkpads and HP offloaded their consultancy to HPE.

[SchumiStars]

Just noticed that both IBM and HP are sponsoring Ferrari in F1. Very odd, to have conflicting brands on one global televisied supplier.

Perhaps it's a sign of the times that everyone is skint.

[SchumiStars]

I think it is a bit of a herd mentality amongst hiring managers in many sectors.

At various points in my contracting career I've manged to get into banking, pharma (twice) and insurance (twice) which all seemed to be more a less closed shop to me. I'm not a techie but I had worked a lot in other heavily regulated environments which I think at least helped to prise the door ajar a bit.

I've seen hiring manager bias in most sectors. Private sector companies who are biased against anyone from the pubic sector or vice versa. Managers in smaller companies who are biased against people from big corporates and vice versa. And so on...

As Dorkeaux suggests, it's worth chancing your arm, especially in the current market, if the job ad doesn't specifically say *MUST* have XYZ sector experience.

True story.

I applied for a data warehouse contract. Got into the interview whereby the manager read my CV and said I am sorry about this but this job is not for you. Clearly you are a developer.

He said we'll you are here now, do the tech test, don't worry about it, I don't expect you to do well.

Whilst he sat in the room, I completed the test and handed it back to him and he threw his arms up in the air and said well, it looks like you have passed so you can start on Monday.

I usually don't do well on tech tests TBH, there is a million ways of doing something and there is always someone who is better. But in this case, it looks like I had done enough of them for the cards to fall in my favour.

I did have to learn how to do Data warehouses, in a hurry though

Moral of the story, always give yourself the best chance.

[edison]

Clients in one business domain do not all behave/hire in lockstep.

I would argue that time spent applying for roles in domains you imagine are locked is a far better value than spending time and mental energy "tailoring" your CV and writing covering letters.

Maybe you are right about the London market prefering people who are localish, but refer to my first point. Since Covid there are far more opportunities for hybrid/remote working. It's one major way the market has actually improved.

Also, one of my past London market clients was based in Scotland. Fully remote, baby!

I think it is a bit of a herd mentality amongst hiring managers in many sectors.

At various points in my contracting career I've manged to get into banking, pharma (twice) and insurance (twice) which all seemed to be more a less closed shop to me. I'm not a techie but I had worked a lot in other heavily regulated environments which I think at least helped to prise the door ajar a bit.

I've seen hiring manager bias in most sectors. Private sector companies who are biased against anyone from the pubic sector or vice versa. Managers in smaller companies who are biased against people from big corporates and vice versa. And so on...

As Dorkeaux suggests, it's worth chancing your arm, especially in the current market, if the job ad doesn't specifically say *MUST* have XYZ sector experience.

[Bluenose]

Clients in one business domain do not all behave/hire in lockstep.

Controversial Friday afternoon post!

[oliverson]

Geography was my friend in this instance. One of the Insurance firms had a large office local to me that I was a temp in so I had a bit of knowledge of insurance (as did half the town as it was a major employer). My first contract was with an outfit that were spun off from them and were still based locally. After the interview I had with them the women pointed out I had worked with her son in my final permanent role.

I suspect if there was an Investment Bank rather then an Insurance firm based locally when I was growing up I would have had a different career path.

Yep, plenty of rate cuts and furloughs!