Reply to: State of the Market

[Protagoras]

Is the 'state of the market' now so bad that the discussion is now 'giving up work' ...

A UK base is handy for later in life and the summer, so why not just rent an apartment somewhere for the three months either side or Christmas? Also, renting allows more locations to be visited.

Obviously it's different if one's family have all emigrated. I know people whose children have left the UK and so there's little to keep the parents here.

[willendure]

Picked up the new Tesla at the weekend

I think I spotted your the mistake you made that keeps you shackled to the desk!

[Bluenose]

I think if you are going to move to work in the EU you need to be doing it younger than 50 in the current climate. You dont get full benefits in some places until year 12 or even 15 of the move. The best thing you can do is move to somewhere you can carry on working from and if you love it (working) just do it until the wheels fall off.

[caminito]

My other half and I have been having the same discussions. 51 this year and I can't see me coding until I'm 60. Plan A is to sell-up and downsize to be mortgage free, Plan B is to holiday let our current home and rent/buy somewhere cheaper near the coast.

We have also talked about maybe using the Digital Nomad Visa for Spain but property rental costs in Spain are quite high, plus the hassle of the tax implications.

I want to spend the next 10 years having fun whilst I can. Not moaning about lack of requirements or test plans....

I had the retirement idea too. Get to the point I really couldn't be bothered with coding anymore, sell the UK house and move to our holiday home in Andalucia. I lasted 2 months max. I've been working since I was 15 and next year I'll turn 60. I guess I must be institutionalised or something.

I think the push came to shove when I absolutely had to make the decision to sell up in the UK, and found I couldn't. Everything had changed since I conceived this plan some 20 years earlier. The cost of everything had gone through the roof, including out in Spain. Maybe not as much as in the UK, but enough for me to look at my financial provisions and realise that in 2026, they just don't cut the mustard.

When I made my plan in 2005 I was on a day rate of £ 450, close to home, IR35 wasn't much of an issue, and I was hungry to get into the London investment banking scene on day rates of £650+. Whilst that kind of happened, I hadn't factored in the true expenses of travelling and staying in London. It ended up chopping off around £ 100 a day from my rate and I didn't break into that scene on £ 650+, more like £ 500+. But what really broke my financial plan was the financial crisis and a ruinous period of being on and off the bench, racking up huge debts and other calamitous damages. No sooner had I recovered, maybe a decade or more later, covid came along and wiped out all that recovery with a 17 month stint on the bench, no covid support packages other than the BBL (which is debt, not support).

So, when my US client closed their business, 6 months earlier than my contract end date, a loss of £70k+, and I was thrust into the tulip again, I though "you know, I've had enough, I'm done", so I decided to retire right then and there. We jumped in the car and drove down to our place in the sun. So, what went wrong? Like I said, costs have really risen down there and I was reluctant to go out and do the things we used to do. Rounds of golf are approaching 100 euros or more. My company car (Tesla) was due to go back. I have to sell the UK property, or perhaps the one in Spain. Was that the kind of life I wanted, sat there worried about money? Leaving my home land? Leaving our holiday home? Leaving a 20+ year contract/business? Losing a sense of purpose?

I think it's one thing having this idea of downsizing, retiring to the sun, etc. but it's only when you are faced with making that decision, that reality check. Then there's the issue on visas. I looked into the DNV for Spain and I really couldn't see it working. I even put a post up on this forum about it. The other option was the Non-lucrative visa, where one of the requirements is that you have the financial means to support yourself. But that visa means you absolutely cannot earn a single penny from working. There were other undesirable factors to it as well. Then there are other 'imminent' issues. I discussed it with my wife and concluded that neither of us wanted to die in Spain.

So, I plod on. Picked up the new Tesla at the weekend, so I'm hooked for another 3 years. 3 months into a rolling 6 month contract, which will hopefully continue. I may 'try again' in another 3 years, or sell the Spanish place and retire in the UK. The trouble with that though is the cost of living and inflation is even higher here, and that looks like it's not going to end, certainly in my lifetime.

IO
IO
It's off to work we go!!

[Dorkeaux]

My other half and I have been having the same discussions. 51 this year and I can't see me coding until I'm 60. Plan A is to sell-up and downsize to be mortgage free, Plan B is to holiday let our current home and rent/buy somewhere cheaper near the coast.

We have also talked about maybe using the Digital Nomad Visa for Spain but property rental costs in Spain are quite high, plus the hassle of the tax implications.

I want to spend the next 10 years having fun whilst I can. Not moaning about lack of requirements or test plans....

I hear you. Me too.
I'm getting pretty old, or "Senior" as I phrase it on my CV.

I manage burnout up to now by:
a) Taking my retirement in pieces over my entire working life. Sometimes a year or more at a time, sometimes only a few months.
b) Managing the roles I take to favour more non-coding contracts.

I've written a lot of code over my career, and greatly respect the profession.
If that was still my primary role now, I'd be not as happy.

Maybe consider taking technical leadership roles, consulting, IT architecture, programme management and so on.
Technical people are highly valued in these roles, if you have "Stakeholder Management" skills and know what good looks like.

[coolhandluke]

I had a holiday in Feb. Was in Dubai racing my bike, well before WW3. Really enjoyed it. So, I'm thinking about buying a flat and working out how I can retire there. I'm not saying it's perfect but I'm sick of the poor weather in London.

The thought of working another 10yrs fills me with dread if I am honest. I really enjoy work but 10yrs is a long time and life is too short to be coding until I'm 60.

My other half and I have been having the same discussions. 51 this year and I can't see me coding until I'm 60. Plan A is to sell-up and downsize to be mortgage free, Plan B is to holiday let our current home and rent/buy somewhere cheaper near the coast.

We have also talked about maybe using the Digital Nomad Visa for Spain but property rental costs in Spain are quite high, plus the hassle of the tax implications.

I want to spend the next 10 years having fun whilst I can. Not moaning about lack of requirements or test plans....

[willendure]

Have you been to Dubai between May and, say, September?

Hot and humid. Bahrain is nicer, hot but dry.

[sadkingbilly]

I had a holiday in Feb. Was in Dubai racing my bike, well before WW3. Really enjoyed it. So, I'm thinking about buying a flat and working out how I can retire there. I'm not saying it's perfect but I'm sick of the poor weather in London.

The thought of working another 10yrs fills me with dread if I am honest. I really enjoy work but 10yrs is a long time and life is too short to be coding until I'm 60.

masalaama

[ladymuck]

I had a holiday in Feb. Was in Dubai racing my bike, well before WW3. Really enjoyed it. So, I'm thinking about buying a flat and working out how I can retire there. I'm not saying it's perfect but I'm sick of the poor weather in London.

The thought of working another 10yrs fills me with dread if I am honest. I really enjoy work but 10yrs is a long time and life is too short to be coding until I'm 60.

Have you been to Dubai between May and, say, September?

[SchumiStars]

I had a holiday in Feb. Was in Dubai racing my bike, well before WW3. Really enjoyed it. So, I'm thinking about buying a flat and working out how I can retire there. I'm not saying it's perfect but I'm sick of the poor weather in London.

The thought of working another 10yrs fills me with dread if I am honest. I really enjoy work but 10yrs is a long time and life is too short to be coding until I'm 60.

[willendure]

Hays share price hit an all time low today. Not getting any decent enquiries at all, its been very quiet since Christmas.

state of the market - "come on baby, pull up....pull up" (Maverick, Top Gun).

I think the business cycle is not far off topping out, liquidity cycle seems to be. That means green shoots are at least 18 months away - a whole new economy and the first all AI business cycle.

[Bluenose]

Hays share price hit an all time low today. Not getting any decent enquiries at all, its been very quiet since Christmas.

state of the market - "come on baby, pull up....pull up" (Maverick, Top Gun).

[willendure]

Building AI Pipelines seems to be where it's going and what I'm focusing on.

I'm also using Codex now to help build a new front end and it's quick to get initial results but tiresome to use. It seems to default to use the most complicated solution possible, much like your average React developer creating what is essentially a HTML form

I agree, you want to be using AI not being used by AI.

[coolhandluke]

I dont want to be a bringer of bad tidings but, i just cant see the newer AI stuff (2026 only) having only a small effect on professional services in general.

How many people are typing stuff into basic, free AI chat and getting a legal opinion or, cut and pasting their entire accounts into a pro subscription to check if its right? Thats not to mention the hordes of front end developers and web creative staff that have already been thrown under the bus and will be lucky to pick up minimum wage in 2027.

I hope unemployment peaks, dont get me wrong we are all in the same boat on that front but thats got to be a very optimistic few on an economic cycle that probably saw this type of disruption last in the 1970s.

Building AI Pipelines seems to be where it's going and what I'm focusing on.

I'm also using Codex now to help build a new front end and it's quick to get initial results but tiresome to use. It seems to default to use the most complicated solution possible, much like your average React developer creating what is essentially a HTML form

[Bluenose]

https://www.standard.co.uk/homesandp...-b1273514.html

Unemployment will peak this year.
London is suffering from lack of hospitality, tourism and rental incomes.

...so it looks like we have not quite hit the bottom yet.

I dont want to be a bringer of bad tidings but, i just cant see the newer AI stuff (2026 only) having only a small effect on professional services in general.

How many people are typing stuff into basic, free AI chat and getting a legal opinion or, cut and pasting their entire accounts into a pro subscription to check if its right? Thats not to mention the hordes of front end developers and web creative staff that have already been thrown under the bus and will be lucky to pick up minimum wage in 2027.

I hope unemployment peaks, dont get me wrong we are all in the same boat on that front but thats got to be a very optimistic few on an economic cycle that probably saw this type of disruption last in the 1970s.