Reply to: State of the Market

[Sub]

Not better value. My experience is that cheap labor costs more in the long term. As you have to redo the work in most cases.

Of course, but why this should be a concern for an executives or shareholders of the company, if they can increase they short and medium-term bonuses / dividends by drastically reducing costs of labor for this FY?

They take their 6/7 figure salaries, plus bonuses, say "sorry, it seem to be time for some one else to step in" and depart leaving pile of s*te behind. And it will be their end-client's (and this is often public sector entity) problem to sort - usually by spending more money with another vendor.

Answering to your previous question, what immigration, Thames Water and workers rights has to do with each other - all those issues have same source. And this is ukplc conduct, placing short-term, small group benefits above welfare of their workers as well general public interests, health and safety. And to do that, they use every available method including lobbying necessary policies through weak government.

Despite same end-result, the problem we have is not: "Immigrants (legal by the way, guys coming on rafts unlikely to take anyone's job) taking UK programmers jobs", it is "companies increasing their profits by giving UK programmer jobs jobs to immigrants they bring in". While there is little difference in outcome for UK programmers, correct statement of the problem is critical to finding a solution.

[GJABS]

It's always worth trying. I was always C# and then got a contract, oddly, wanting me to do Java. I had to learn, very quickly on the job. That was about 20yrs ago though.

Its also very different today than how it was when I first started circa Y2K. It does seem that, although useful, having an understanding of how computers work in detail is not required. I.e. Knowing how memory is allocated or how to improve performance on a database.

I am also very sure that the freshies, like Accenture graduates, are not particuly interested in computer science. They use it as an entry point for a career in order to become a (project/programme/tech) manager of some sort has it has more status associated.

It's only when you get to my age do you work out that being a developer within an aging community is probably not cool.

Thanks for that. I do have C# .NET mentioned in the body of my CV, and as a result of that I got a call from an agent re a C# gig a few weeks ago, to which she said she would forward the CV to the client.
But a week later the client got back to her saying "we also have a SQL DBA role that might be a closer fit to GJABS's CV - would he prefer to apply to that perhaps". I said no to that, as I wanted the C# job. But I heard nothing further.

As an aside, given how quiet the market is, I'm using my free time to compile a wiki on an internet-facing Raspberry PI, comprising a detailed history of my career, describing the various projects I've worked on over the years. And link to it from my main CV. Who knows it might improve my job prospects, though I am not getting my hopes up!

I hope you find work too in the not too distant future - and I still think being a developer is cool - at any age

[SchumiStars]

Interesting. My main skill is SQL, but I've developed a hobby aerial photos website in javascript, compiled with node.js. and a few years ago wrote a hobby trading website in C#. I wonder whether it is worth trying to build on the second two skills and try and use them professionally? Maybe I would not be able to find work though, if your experience is typical?

It's always worth trying. I was always C# and then got a contract, oddly, wanting me to do Java. I had to learn, very quickly on the job. That was about 20yrs ago though.

Its also very different today than how it was when I first started circa Y2K. It does seem that, although useful, having an understanding of how computers work in detail is not required. I.e. Knowing how memory is allocated or how to improve performance on a database.

I am also very sure that the freshies, like Accenture graduates, are not particuly interested in computer science. They use it as an entry point for a career in order to become a (project/programme/tech) manager of some sort has it has more status associated.

It's only when you get to my age do you work out that being a developer within an aging community is probably not cool.

[GJABS]

Software dev. Java, C#, Node, SQL

Interesting. My main skill is SQL, but I've developed a hobby aerial photos website in javascript, compiled with node.js. and a few years ago wrote a hobby trading website in C#. I wonder whether it is worth trying to build on the second two skills and try and use them professionally? Maybe I would not be able to find work though, if your experience is typical?

[Fraidycat]

I don't keep up with the trends in development platforms but if someone experienced in those technologies can't find work then most of us are in trouble.

Even if you have Java or C# they will look for a closer match and experience in more specific sub skills. Just to filter through the 100s of CVs they get. Along with the other common filters like working the same sector recently.

[SussexSeagull]

Software dev. Java, C#, Node, SQL

I don't keep up with the trends in development platforms but if someone experienced in those technologies can't find work then most of us are in trouble.

[BigDataPro]

They seem to be doing ok on that front. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...2.cms?from=mdr

+1. India is doing well in their own defence manufacturing under the "Make in India" programme and doing very well in its exporting as well.

[SchumiStars]

What field of work are you in?

Software dev. Java, C#, Node, SQL

[Elliegirl]

Started to think about catching a train. Not good.

What field of work are you in?

[squarepeg]

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

No. The end client (the employer) pays only slightly lower rate or even the same rate as before. The consultancies take a large cut of the contractor/employee's rate. The quality of work is low. Over the last decade I worked on about half a dozen projects where either imported labour or offshore labour was used and the quality was awful. In one case it tanked a promising startup in the the other it took a whole year to not deliver an important project.

[SussexSeagull]

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

Absolutely.

[SussexSeagull]

Weapons.

They seem to be doing ok on that front. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...2.cms?from=mdr

[avonleigh]

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

Not better value. My experience is that cheap labour costs more in the long term. As you have to redo the work in most cases.

[Sub]

At our expense. Making our lives significantly worse and us poorer too.

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

[squarepeg]

I agree with both those points, and ironically those self same people who came over are in the same boat as the rest of us now.

If I could sort out the balance of trade deficit with India I wouldn't be wasting my time on here. In fairness it is an emerging market but Whisky aside I struggle to see what we can offer them that they can't sort out themselves.

Weapons.