Reply to: State of the Market

[quackhandle]

Look at Wilco... £100 million + in cash reserves before Covid and then they went under because they lost it all during Covid and didn't have the money to reform.

FWIW, The Wilko grandaughter is blaming it on Truss/Kwarzi's mini budget.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67552360

qh

[Snooky]

Just paid the deposit on a second EV for the missus. Pick it up tomorrow. Doing my bit for the economy ;-)

What on earth will she do with two EVs?

[oliverson]

Milan just ordered himself a new fancy motor, in case you've been living in a cave the last month and hadn't heard him tell everyone. That should help.

Just paid the deposit on a second EV for the missus. Pick it up tomorrow. Doing my bit for the economy ;-)

[dx4100]

there would be enough work if they stopped issuing work visas to Indian nationals with skills already in oversupply

Age old blame the immigrants mantra...

Tech boom and bust post Covid and the draining of resources within UK Plc during Covid are the two major factors why we are here today.

Look at Wilco... £100 million + in cash reserves before Covid and then they went under because they lost it all during Covid and didn't have the money to reform.

I would blame all the guys happy to sit at home during Covid rather than the guy from Mumbai.

[CoolCat]

But is there enough work out there for everyone who is currently on the bench?

I think not... so mathematically impossible for everyone who is currently looking to find a role, so the only alternative for some will be remain unemployed and eat through the war chest or find a temp job outside of the IT industry.

there would be enough work if they stopped issuing work visas to Indian nationals with skills already in oversupply

[Snooky]

We need people buying lots of new stuff, not going down the auction to buy a 150k mile Dacia Sandero.

Milan just ordered himself a new fancy motor, in case you've been living in a cave the last month and hadn't heard him tell everyone. That should help.

[Bluenose]

Just counter balance some of the points that have been made on the previous pages.

We all saw the post on linked in yesterday from the guy that is desperate, he has a family to feed and he is doing what he can to find work, I don't find that embarrassing, I think that is brave (no, it's not me).

You do what you need to do to feed your family, I mentioned it before but 'London Bridge Man' aka the I.T Project Management guy who held up an out of work sign on London Bridge during the financial crash until he found a job with his linked-in profile written on it. I walked past him for weeks, I never felt embarrassed for the guy, I wanted to help him, I could not help him apart from share his profile to my network maybe that's all you need to do, share the post, its free remember.

For those men who have been divorced and have kids, you can find yourself homeless and skint in days. Don't know how that's possible? Speak to a man that has been through it.

In terms of speaking to agents you know previously well, its a good theory but in practice you will probably find that many of your contacts have been either made redundant or, have moved on to other careers. Many people are left talking to call centre people on a long line to India, with the expected levels of communication and relationship building that goes with that.

The rout in the recruitment market is also making recruiters redundant as well, have a look at the U.K based recruiters share prices.

I see on my feed, recruiters with 10+ years experience in the field looking for work. Inside, Outside, Perm, Contract, its all in the toilet. I would not be limiting myself to Outside work either mind.

Re: Recruiter share prices. If you read the analyst sentiment, it's well known that many big projects were placed on hold in Q1 2023, for various reasons, the bond market rout and potential equities crash was one big reason. The recruiters were expecting a kick-ass Q3/Q4 but the war has put paid to that and now we are circling the drain.

Does that mean there are too many contractors chasing too few roles? There are at the minute yes but the flip-side to that is when these delayed projects get the green light to start-up again - which they will do - UK/EU PLC becomes uncompetitive as you need to pay the usual suspects almost 2 bags a day (inc. Vat) and wait a month for people that you should and used to be be paying almost a third less for that can start tomorrow - for transformation staff.

Many of these non-transformation contractors that flip into 49k or 99k perm roles, to slip in under these two tax thresholds to get free the free goodies like childcare, used to be 150k billable outside contractors that's a 50%+ drop in GDP output per worker and a big drop in purchasing power for these people.

Outcome? The contract market will sort itself out but its a negative outlook for U.K GDP. We need people buying lots of new stuff, not going down the auction to buy a 150k mile Dacia Sandero.

[dx4100]

There is work out there, as I say, it may just mean people have to widen their scope. Which may mean accepting a lower rate, or taking a role that doesn't have as important a description, etc.
I'm not sure if there's enough work for everyone who is on the bench, but there's certainly work - we're being told that all the time by the government that there's plenty of jobs, but people are too lazy to do them. Maybe some contractors are being too fussy to do some as well.
Maybe.

Plenty of perm work out there. Salaries are down a bit and there is move to hybrid / onsite. But the work is there.

[dx4100]

Ask about jobs without all the selling house / selling car / credit cards maxed out etc. who cares? the only thing you are asking about is openings, why would anyone give you a job because you are in a tough spot?



Again, why would politicians help contractors who often were on crazy high rates for years? it's not the politicians fault you've spent all the money.

Anyone waiting to be rescued by a politician is going to have a very long wait

[dx4100]

Totally with WTFH here...

Pretty sensible stuff.

I have always contracted as I like project work vs business as usual and earlier in my career I wanted to expose myself to as many teams, ways of working and technology.

The tax around it and the increased pay (arguably) where nice side perks. If you are doing to simply save tax then you are the reason why our lives are difficult.

I don't have much sympathy with people out of work and only going after outside work.

Look at inside, look at perm...

Most perm roles in reality only last a few years before they fall into business as usual or are made redundant due to most the job being done so you move on anyways. Nothing wrong with sitting in a perm role for a few years. Enjoy the paid holidays and pension payments.

The market isn't great. Get flexible.

If you want to beg on linkedin then go right ahead but you are going to look stupid and only increase your chances of not finding work.

[dsc]

Not what I said.
I'm saying that for people who are desperate for work, they should not rule out things that may work for them.

I didn't say they had to quit when the first contract offer came along. They may find they enjoy a permanent role. They may find that it works out well for them. They may also find that they don't enjoy it, and choose to move on if the market suddenly turns a corner.

Problem with a permanent role is that you're getting paid a salary and can't claim your wife and son are working for you to reduce your tax.

With the current market and so many applications for perm positions, I wouldn't be surprised if contractor CVs get binned as very often contractors bail when the contracting market comes back to life. Why risk having someone bail, spend money on-boarding them etc. if you have so much interest from perm people? I know contractors bring a wealth of knowledge (sometimes) but perm people also know stuff and if the risk is lower and you have loads to choose from, I'd stick to permies personally.

[WTFH]

But is there enough work out there for everyone who is currently on the bench?

I think not... so mathematically impossible for everyone who is currently looking to find a role, so the only alternative for some will be remain unemployed and eat through the war chest or find a temp job outside of the IT industry.

There is work out there, as I say, it may just mean people have to widen their scope. Which may mean accepting a lower rate, or taking a role that doesn't have as important a description, etc.
I'm not sure if there's enough work for everyone who is on the bench, but there's certainly work - we're being told that all the time by the government that there's plenty of jobs, but people are too lazy to do them. Maybe some contractors are being too fussy to do some as well.
Maybe.

[WTFH]

Questionable ethics taking a perm role knowing you'll bail at the first good contract offer.

And you have the nerve to question my ethics?

It's all good until it affects you isn't it?

Not what I said.
I'm saying that for people who are desperate for work, they should not rule out things that may work for them.

I didn't say they had to quit when the first contract offer came along. They may find they enjoy a permanent role. They may find that it works out well for them. They may also find that they don't enjoy it, and choose to move on if the market suddenly turns a corner.

Problem with a permanent role is that you're getting paid a salary and can't claim your wife and son are working for you to reduce your tax.

[Fraidycat]

There is work out there.

But is there enough work out there for everyone who is currently on the bench?

I think not... so mathematically impossible for everyone who is currently looking to find a role, so the only alternative for some will be remain unemployed and eat through the war chest or find a temp job outside of the IT industry.

[dsc]

[...]I think you can randomly bombard people in your connections about the situation.[...]

Ask about jobs without all the selling house / selling car / credit cards maxed out etc. who cares? the only thing you are asking about is openings, why would anyone give you a job because you are in a tough spot?

The situation is real, and if enough decent politicians see the public evidence, then actually it might help us all (eventually).

Again, why would politicians help contractors who often were on crazy high rates for years? it's not the politicians fault you've spent all the money.