Reply to: State of the Market

[ensignia]

Brexit! Jeez. Next you'll be saying Ukraine, Trump, blah, blah.

The reality is there's no growth, no business confidence, no future while this government of utter incompetence are calling the shots. NONE.

Yes, because the previous 14 years were so fantastic weren't they?

There are some odd people on here who've completely failed to adapt or improve, and find it easy to blame everything on others.

[oliverson]

Can't all be blamed on outsourcing. IR35, Brexit, and cost of living crisis have all had massive impacts. But yes contracting is dead. Whether it ever recovers is anybody's guess. Don't think anyone can predict that with any certainty right now.

Brexit! Jeez. Next you'll be saying Ukraine, Trump, blah, blah.

The reality is there's no growth, no business confidence, no future while this government of utter incompetence are calling the shots. NONE.

[sadkingbilly]

The irony is that we're meant to be adaptable - isn't what we're encountering now just another set of circumstances to adapt to?

Adapt or die

[fatJock]

Which, knowing the place, is still running and still got a few years left.

Yeah I know a few folks who are still there - lots of perms were let go in a cull those few weeks ago.

[Robinho]

I'm probably being stupid really. Nobody's going to posting jobs a week before Christmas.

[northernladuk]

I've had two months on the bench during Covid and then took a year out through choice (Sept 23/Oct 23) whilst refusing an extension to the contract I was in at Asda on a programme which still had a couple of years to run.

Which, knowing the place, is still running and still got a few years left.

[fatJock]

I remember when I lurked on here ten years ago, and again eight years ago when I got my first contract and I read all of the same sort of stuff - contracting is dead. [Insert new reason] will end contracting. If I had listened then I wouldn't have had some great years and opportunities.

I wouldn't say I have a niche set of skills - 25 years in IT/Infrastructure projects as PM/Programme Manager predominantly in the logistics industry. In my eight years of contracting I've had two months on the bench during Covid and then took a year out through choice (Sept 23/Oct 23) whilst refusing an extension to the contract I was in at Asda on a programme which still had a couple of years to run. Maybe I've been lucky, maybe my Midlands location has helped - dunno?

The irony is that we're meant to be adaptable - isn't what we're encountering now just another set of circumstances to adapt to?

[avonleigh]

Is contracting dead these days then?

I've really just been freelancing the last couple of years. But i just had a look on Jobserve to see if i could land myself a big juicy money spinner, but i don't think there's even been a single job with my skillset been posted.

Has everywhere just outsourced to India having realised WFH means there's no point in having UK staff?

Can't all be blamed on outsourcing. IR35, Brexit, and cost of living crisis have all had massive impacts. But yes contracting is dead. Whether it ever recovers is anybody's guess. Don't think anyone can predict that with any certainty right now.

[SchumiStars]

Is contracting dead these days then?

I've really just been freelancing the last couple of years. But i just had a look on Jobserve to see if i could land myself a big juicy money spinner, but i don't think there's even been a single job with my skillset been posted.

Has everywhere just outsourced to India having realised WFH means there's no point in having UK staff?

Lucky for me, I just managed to get my unaffordable home in London in decent shape after all these years, thinking that living and working in London would give me the best roles and rates.

Just imagine how popular HS2 will be now that everyone has worked out using teams is more efficient than travelling to major city for meetings.

WFH & outsourcing are bigger threats than IR35. At least with IR35, once the rates sorted themselves out, with contractor availability and skill set, it would have been manageable.

Outsourcing means for the same amount companies pay for a contractor they can get a company with contract sla in place.

WFH, means no office costs for the company so just end up working as a body shop.

In order since my last investment bank:
2020 IR35
2021 COVID (no contracts)
2022 WFH
2023 Immigration + outsourcing
2024 IT Recession

(Rough timeline)

[quackhandle]

It's been dead for years, is newly dead, is slowly dying or is making a spirited comeback depending on what bollox you've read from your left/right/center leaning news casts/pods/influencers.

Good luck.

qh

[Robinho]

Is contracting dead these days then?

I've really just been freelancing the last couple of years. But i just had a look on Jobserve to see if i could land myself a big juicy money spinner, but i don't think there's even been a single job with my skillset been posted.

Has everywhere just outsourced to India having realised WFH means there's no point in having UK staff?

[dsc]

I am more than well aware dsc ....I am one of these people 25 years plus experience and it is dire!

Strict working hours combined with long daily commutes plus rubbish pay are all part if it....even allowing for all of this I doubt it will happen as volume of applicants so it is pretty grim...how did it go so badly wrong for contractors!?!

In a way I have a feeling that UK was always pretty special when it came to people working as contractors, rates were pretty good for a long time and you could do it for years earning way more then permies, often doing exactly the same job (whether this was legal is another matter...) so for me it's more of a reality finally hitting everyone in the face. I'm actually more surprised how quickly it all went south, but then again I think it's the IR35 changes + IT recession that drove us here, so not just one factor.

As for not getting even tulip roles - remember often client / employers know that contractors are desperate at the moment and they will leave as soon as the market improves, so they prefer to go with someone less skilled, but also less confident and less likely to just bail when a new opportunity arises. Ideal candidate seems to be someone who accepts low rate thinking it's loads, hasn't got enough skills to jump ship (but enough to maybe be trained and do the job) and gratefully agrees with everything tulipe that the job offers / brings.

[Cookielove]

I am more than well aware dsc ....I am one of these people 25 years plus experience and it is dire!

Strict working hours combined with long daily commutes plus rubbish pay are all part if it....even allowing for all of this I doubt it will happen as volume of applicants so it is pretty grim...how did it go so badly wrong for contractors!?!

[dsc]

just wondering is the the norm now for hours as the landscape has changed ! and this is for far less ££

The norm now is that people with 20yrs of experience are benched for 12m+, clients / employers have a list of requirements which covers responsibilities of at least 3 senior roles and they are paying 50% of "normal" rates or less. So yes, the landscape has definitely changed and I think strict working hours are the least of our worries.

[pjt]

It is fine when wfh to flex you hours....but this is an office role so you can't turn up as and when ....that is the minimum set hours for the team...then the commute is a drive of at least an hour so leaving home say 7.30 maybe a little earlier and then getting home on a good run 6.30 at earliest....I think that is along day ...wfh it doesn't matter but if you add in at least 2 hours plus commuting !

Doubt it will come to fruition as so many applying...

Sounds like a pretty grim role. But in reality will it really pan out as bad as it looks on paper. In my experience most places are more flexiable than they document. Most places I've worked have been fairly relaxed on what hours are actually done as long as the work is getting done. I know personally my main aim is delivering the time it takes is irrelevant. Is the role 100% office based? I'd imagine if its that on paper even that may be up for negotation when you start. If not then I'd say this sounds like a dog of a place to work.