Reply to: State of the Market

[JustKeepSwimming]

I think we will only see whether that is true or not once the economy picks up, and the market shifts from client market to contractor market. Only then will companies feel the need to sort out their contractor law understanding to get access to the full contractor pool.

At the moment though, there is no incentive whatsoever for this to happen while even Inside roles can get 000s of applications.

2022 was a contractor (and employee) market. Companies were desperate for workers and paying over the odds for them. If they didn't 'sort out their contractor law understanding' then, they never will.

Reality for the last 15+ years with the exception of 2022~ it has been an employers market. We are getting poorer and importing many 100ks of people a year. Things aren't getting better anytime soon.

[simes]

I suspect outside IR35 is in terminal decline and inside and FTC are going to align closer.

I think we will only see whether that is true or not once the economy picks up, and the market shifts from client market to contractor market. Only then will companies feel the need to sort out their contractor law understanding to get access to the full contractor pool.

At the moment though, there is no incentive whatsoever for this to happen while even Inside roles can get 000s of applications.

[northernladuk]

there are defence projects where its not so obvious due to requirements for security clearance, but otherwise agree

Sad thing is they don't have poor quality off shore resources for security clearance. They have poor quality contractors doing any job regardless of skill set just because they've got SC.

[CoolCat]

Was chatting last night to an old friend in Silicon Valley who's originally from the UK. He's at the leading edge of thinking in AI and paints a worrying picture of national technology capabilities in the UK and Europe in the coming decade and the impact on wealth creation and jobs.

I tend to agree with him. I think we'll see the USA continue to dominate with China maybe not too far behind and Europe will be laggards.

Even today, I struggle to think of many notable successful UK tech companies that started within the last 10 years. A smaller pool of highly educated/capable people, lack of business investment, lack of investment in training and development, poor infrastructure, the list goes on.

Whilst the market may pick up in the next year or two, I think the long term potential for high paying jobs is going to be a lot worse in the 2030s.

its much more of a meritocracy in the US, MUCH more

[CoolCat]

Because it's been going on for over 15 years and everyone that has ever walked in to the IT dept of a decent sized company can see it for their own eyes. The figures will make for some interesting reading but it's certainly not news. How can you work in IT and not be aware of this?

there are defence projects where its not so obvious due to requirements for security clearance, but otherwise agree

[JustKeepSwimming]

Does this not seem a little odd? It's the ONS business survey.

[PerfectStorm]

Why did you not just try the role for a week? Not much to lose.

I was once interviewed by a person who asked an interview question and then just stayed emotionless and awkwardly silent after I had answered. After I started I mentioned it to him and he replied that it was his deliberate interview technique. In reality he was absolutely fine to work with.

Because you then have to start it feeling terrible about the people you've just met. And once you've started, no one wants to hand in a notice, do they?

Better to have an abundance mindset over a scarcity one.

[SussexSeagull]

Not even sure it's immigration to blame. Probably more the high taxation that the UK employs to cooperates and individuals.

If you are a talented developer with an Oxbridge education, why would you want to stay in the UK.

I think it is a combination of things. I don’t ever really recall a shortage of IT staff but they really meant there was a shortage of cheap staff.

That said the main problem at the moment is the wider economy.

[SussexSeagull]

I'll be hanging up my contracting keyboard in the next 2-3 years too. It will be 20 years I've been doing this in February next year.

Rent the UK place out and move to the sun. Mortgage on that place will be coming to a close. Write my own software at my leisure. I have a few ideas.

I've had a good innings at this but I feel for those of you just starting out or in mid-stride.

I am a couple of years behind you but agree. I suspect outside IR35 is in terminal decline and inside and FTC are going to align closer.

[JustKeepSwimming]

Not even sure it's immigration to blame. Probably more the high taxation that the UK employs to cooperates and individuals.

If you are a talented developer with an Oxbridge education, why would you want to stay in the UK.

Economies are complex so it's not going to be just one factor. Like others have said, I find it hard to velieve anyone who hasn't see a substantial rise in non-UK workers. There is a clear bias to hire in talent rather than promote. Whereas if you look at American linkedins you see a clear trend of internal promotions every year or two.

I think the boat has largely sailed now, but pre covid, any half decent tech grad really should've gone to America. Provided you were prudent with your money, you realistically could have been laid off recently and move back here with high 6 figures in the bank. $150k + stock options was very attainable even for juniors. With a CV that would put you towards the top of the UK pack.

[SussexSeagull]

I had a similar contract.
They had about 15 testers, all from India.
Every time they found something that "didn't work" they would raise a bug. No investigation, no root cause analysis, just raise a bug and assign to one of the BAs.
Just randomly bash in source data and hope for the best.
So we end up with about 80 bugs which are not actually bugs.

To be fair they were actually quite good at what they did and I don’t have a problem with them as individuals but you now have a lot of contractors and permanent staff who were given work permits in better economic times and have been here so long they have a right to remain.

[SchumiStars]

Not even sure it's immigration to blame. Probably more the high taxation that the UK employs to cooperates and individuals.

If you are a talented developer with an Oxbridge education, why would you want to stay in the UK.

[oliverson]

Sounds like a good plan!

Only thing is that the only people making money in UK are pensioners renting out properties, not people actually working.

You're just switching sides!

Been working for over 40 years now. It's time to join the other side!

[jamesbrown]

You can bring an artist in for £8.41 an hour. Because famously there are next to no unemployed artists in this country.

Right, I mean some of those can be justified, but artist as a shortage occupation, FFS

[hildaoblivion]

I'll be hanging up my contracting keyboard in the next 2-3 years too. It will be 20 years I've been doing this in February next year.

Rent the UK place out and move to the sun. Mortgage on that place will be coming to a close. Write my own software at my leisure. I have a few ideas.

I've had a good innings at this but I feel for those of you just starting out or in mid-stride.

Sounds like a good plan!

Only thing is that the only people making money in UK are pensioners renting out properties, not people actually working.

You're just switching sides!