Reply to: State of the Market

[siddhantkumar]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ge-occupations

Think this sums up how poor we have become, and we are handing out visas like candy at 80% of those salaries. Special shout out to those which are actually below national minimum wage ahaha/

Being an immigrant of Highly skill visa (HSMP, when min salary requirements were £45k+), I find its ridicules that current govt reduces salaries to below national avg

I mean look at chemical scientist working in nuclear industry!!

Chemical scientists – only jobs in the nuclear industry

Scotland only

80% of going rate: £22,800 (£11.69 per hour)

[dsc]

[...]
Basically didn't like the fact I was a contractor lol. It was pretty obvious from my CV I was a contractor so why bother to interview me
[...]

Probably interviewed you just in case any other permies interviewed were tulip and they had no one to fill the void. Sounds like they had at least one other candidate who ticked all the boxes or they just went with someone internal (like they normally do).

[dx4100]

Had a look at the permie world and got feedback from the interview today.

Basically didn't like the fact I was a contractor lol. It was pretty obvious from my CV I was a contractor so why bother to interview me

I should be getting renewed on the current gig but it ends in two weeks and the promised contract still hasn't shown up so I will keep looking but its almost pointless. No matter how many applications I submit I get next to no phone calls. I know its not me but its hard to not get paranoid and think you are doing something wrong lol.

[edison]

2022 was a contractor (and employee) market. Companies were desperate for workers and paying over the odds for them. If they didn't 'sort out their contractor law understanding' then, they never will.

Reality for the last 15+ years with the exception of 2022~ it has been an employers market. We are getting poorer and importing many 100ks of people a year. Things aren't getting better anytime soon.

This is spot on in my opinion. The market at that time was insane, agencies were increasing their fees to absurd levels because they could. Some agencies had waiting lists to take on new mandates unless you paid in full up front.

We are very unlikely to see that market demand again and there's not much incentive for companies to get wiser with IR35.

[Fraidycat]

I've also seen devs get test coverage up to 100% just by calling functions and not checking any of the return values. No assertions or test data; as long as it doesn't crash it's a test success.

At least there are some tests that can be improved.

Last client had a million lines of spaghetti code with no tests at all.

[tjccjt01]

Seen the same thing, and then on the flipside, the new indian devs the company had hired as our replacements that we were to be doing knowledge handover to who had all given themselves titles like senior software architect, just deleted any failing tests one by one with no investigation. Took a few days to notice since all we saw was a % of failing tests and then it promptly being 'fixed' to 100%.

I've also seen devs get test coverage up to 100% just by calling functions and not checking any of the return values. No assertions or test data; as long as it doesn't crash it's a test success.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Typical Dev moaning when testers show their work was below par and didn't work :P

Seen the same thing, and then on the flipside, the new indian devs the company had hired as our replacements that we were to be doing knowledge handover to who had all given themselves titles like senior software architect, just deleted any failing tests one by one with no investigation. Took a few days to notice since all we saw was a % of failing tests and then it promptly being 'fixed' to 100%.

[dx4100]

I had a similar contract.
They had about 15 testers, all from India.
Every time they found something that "didn't work" they would raise a bug. No investigation, no root cause analysis, just raise a bug and assign to one of the BAs.
Just randomly bash in source data and hope for the best.
So we end up with about 80 bugs which are not actually bugs.

Typical Dev moaning when testers show their work was below par and didn't work :P

[JustKeepSwimming]

I think we will only see whether that is true or not once the economy picks up, and the market shifts from client market to contractor market. Only then will companies feel the need to sort out their contractor law understanding to get access to the full contractor pool.

At the moment though, there is no incentive whatsoever for this to happen while even Inside roles can get 000s of applications.

2022 was a contractor (and employee) market. Companies were desperate for workers and paying over the odds for them. If they didn't 'sort out their contractor law understanding' then, they never will.

Reality for the last 15+ years with the exception of 2022~ it has been an employers market. We are getting poorer and importing many 100ks of people a year. Things aren't getting better anytime soon.

[simes]

I suspect outside IR35 is in terminal decline and inside and FTC are going to align closer.

I think we will only see whether that is true or not once the economy picks up, and the market shifts from client market to contractor market. Only then will companies feel the need to sort out their contractor law understanding to get access to the full contractor pool.

At the moment though, there is no incentive whatsoever for this to happen while even Inside roles can get 000s of applications.

[northernladuk]

there are defence projects where its not so obvious due to requirements for security clearance, but otherwise agree

Sad thing is they don't have poor quality off shore resources for security clearance. They have poor quality contractors doing any job regardless of skill set just because they've got SC.

[CoolCat]

Was chatting last night to an old friend in Silicon Valley who's originally from the UK. He's at the leading edge of thinking in AI and paints a worrying picture of national technology capabilities in the UK and Europe in the coming decade and the impact on wealth creation and jobs.

I tend to agree with him. I think we'll see the USA continue to dominate with China maybe not too far behind and Europe will be laggards.

Even today, I struggle to think of many notable successful UK tech companies that started within the last 10 years. A smaller pool of highly educated/capable people, lack of business investment, lack of investment in training and development, poor infrastructure, the list goes on.

Whilst the market may pick up in the next year or two, I think the long term potential for high paying jobs is going to be a lot worse in the 2030s.

its much more of a meritocracy in the US, MUCH more

[CoolCat]

Because it's been going on for over 15 years and everyone that has ever walked in to the IT dept of a decent sized company can see it for their own eyes. The figures will make for some interesting reading but it's certainly not news. How can you work in IT and not be aware of this?

there are defence projects where its not so obvious due to requirements for security clearance, but otherwise agree

[JustKeepSwimming]

Does this not seem a little odd? It's the ONS business survey.

[PerfectStorm]

Why did you not just try the role for a week? Not much to lose.

I was once interviewed by a person who asked an interview question and then just stayed emotionless and awkwardly silent after I had answered. After I started I mentioned it to him and he replied that it was his deliberate interview technique. In reality he was absolutely fine to work with.

Because you then have to start it feeling terrible about the people you've just met. And once you've started, no one wants to hand in a notice, do they?

Better to have an abundance mindset over a scarcity one.