Reply to: State of the Market

[BlueSharp]

Typically around 18 months from the start of the hiking cycle is when the recession gets underway. Which is around now.

The FTSE is showing some strength at the moment which I take as a positive. Antidotally I expect to see a bounce 10 months after it strengthens as market conditions start to favor ROI even with the higher interest rates.

The jobs market is also at a 32-month low so cutting interest rates will be on the cards very soon.

[WTFH]

Contracting is about getting results quickly or you're out - nothing to do with 'politics' - the relationship building you mention isnt 'politics' - you dont seem to understand the difference between the 2 terms.

"permies are happy to keep their heads down and get on with the job" - the ones that get stuck in the same job for years and never get promoted do.

The ones that want to go up the ladder regularly into senior roles know its heavily politics driven

You dont know anything about me or the circumstances in this instance.

I should have done this - I should have done that - relax yourself.

Best not to make yourself look silly with your wild assumptions about other peoples skills you know nothing about.

You seem to do different contracts to me.

I go in to deliver a project, it's not "getting results quickly or you're out", it's getting a project delivered that meets the client's needs.
Once I've done that, I move on to the next client. Most of my roles over the last 25+ years have come from the politics of building relationships. if you say a business relationship has nothing to do with politics, then you're a very "good" politician.

There's also plenty of people who don't care about promotion or being called "CIO" or "Director" or whatever. They don't want the hassle that goes with the role.
You might consider them failures, but maybe they have a better life balance, doing fractional distillation rather than fractional directorship, taking the time to go out walking their dog, or whatever important thing they choose to put in their avatar.

[willendure]

We haven't seen the worst of it yet.
There is supposedly a long lag between interest rate hikes and the effect they have on the economy.
It wont be until 2025 that the economy feels the full effect of 5% interest rates.
If they don't cut rates this year, we are in for more pain.

Typically around 18 months from the start of the hiking cycle is when the recession gets underway. Which is around now.

[dsc]

Surely it cannot get any worse for IT? We have to be at rock bottom now. I cannot see how it can possibly get any worse from here.

Sure it can, throw in loads more layoffs which will create even more demand for ANY jobs.

I'm from Poland where the IT job "scene" has been thriving for the last 10-15yrs or so, everyone assumed it would always be this way, but currently there's a 40-45% drop in IT vacancies, so basically the same tulip as in the UK. If it's that bad there, I can see it going even worse elsewhere.

[northernladuk]

Contracting is about getting results quickly or you're out - nothing to do with 'politics' - the relationship building you mention isnt 'politics' - you dont seem to understand the difference between the 2 terms.

"permies are happy to keep their heads down and get on with the job" - the ones that get stuck in the same job for years and never get promoted do.

The ones that want to go up the ladder regularly into senior roles know its heavily politics driven

I don't agree with much of the above but as you say it's highly circumstantial and can't be covered in a single sentence.

I've had gigs where the quick results is a factor but for some reason my last three years has been very much about negotiation, positioning and keeping the client happy which hasn't always meant working my nuts off. I agree there is a difference between the two terms but recently the two have been pretty well overlapped so when someone says politics to me I know what they mean even if it's not the dictionary definition of the word.

It is arguable that you are using the wrong politics/relationship building that helps people get in to senior roles as well. To not argue about it both and either can be used.

I don't think you are right as you've tried to explain it there but I also see that politics could mean something else to WTFH so it's definitely a discussion that's going south mainly because of the media being used.

And yes, all the above said, it's highly dependant on circumstance but nothing wrong with us giving our experience to the board based on our circumstances.

[BlueSharp]

It says nothing about me stranger internet with dog avatar. What percentage of perm is politics then? That was the conversation.

Contracting is 10% work? - you're either a troll or that says A LOT about you

You're asking the wrong question. Client co-culture and role seniority are bigger factors in the amount of politics involved rather than if you are perm or contractor. A lot techies go the contractor route as it eliminates the politics from a tech role and you are paid on-day delivery but you get a bump in pay. To get a bump in pay as a perm techie managing others and having an awareness of politics is a must.

A senior-level contractor probably has to pay the politics game harder as a) they need to get a renewal while delivering their remit and b) managing relationships is all about understanding stakeholder interests aka politics.

[tsmith]

You say that you wanted a perm role, but it was only after you had been offered it that you discovered things.
Things you should have found out before it got to an offer stage, or you should have negotiated it. That says a lot about your skills at negotiating, or your ability to discuss with a client (or employer) what your expectations are and whether their expectations and yours can be aligned in a way that is acceptable to both parties.



You ask most people why they contract, they tell you it's for the money.
They might claim it's for flexibility, or whatever, but most posts/comments are about rates, how to be tax efficient, etc, not about taking 6 months off a year.

Contracting is about building relationships - relationships with clients, relationships with other contractors, relationships with agents. All those require playing politics. I've worked on enough client sites to know that a lot of contractors play politics way more than permies. Many permies are happy to keep their heads down and get on with the job, not worrying about who to suck up to to get an extension or a rate rise. If you're working on a project and you find those guys, it makes your job easier, because they will tell you what you need to know without making a fuss.





As for my avatar, yes, I have one. It was Millie, my dog, who I lost last year.
I'm not a soul-less nobody.

Contracting is about getting results quickly or you're out - nothing to do with 'politics' - the relationship building you mention isnt 'politics' - you dont seem to understand the difference between the 2 terms.

"permies are happy to keep their heads down and get on with the job" - the ones that get stuck in the same job for years and never get promoted do.

The ones that want to go up the ladder regularly into senior roles know its heavily politics driven

You dont know anything about me or the circumstances in this instance.

I should have done this - I should have done that - relax yourself.

Best not to make yourself look silly with your wild assumptions about other peoples skills you know nothing about.

[TheDude]

12 weeks to go until I reach 90 week engagement limit with client.

Might be time to start getting the brain back into interview mode.

[WTFH]

It says nothing about me stranger internet with dog avatar. What percentage of perm is politics then? That was the conversation.

You say that you wanted a perm role, but it was only after you had been offered it that you discovered things.
Things you should have found out before it got to an offer stage, or you should have negotiated it. That says a lot about your skills at negotiating, or your ability to discuss with a client (or employer) what your expectations are and whether their expectations and yours can be aligned in a way that is acceptable to both parties.

Contracting is 10% work? - you're either a troll or that says A LOT about you

You ask most people why they contract, they tell you it's for the money.
They might claim it's for flexibility, or whatever, but most posts/comments are about rates, how to be tax efficient, etc, not about taking 6 months off a year.

Contracting is about building relationships - relationships with clients, relationships with other contractors, relationships with agents. All those require playing politics. I've worked on enough client sites to know that a lot of contractors play politics way more than permies. Many permies are happy to keep their heads down and get on with the job, not worrying about who to suck up to to get an extension or a rate rise. If you're working on a project and you find those guys, it makes your job easier, because they will tell you what you need to know without making a fuss.





As for my avatar, yes, I have one. It was Millie, my dog, who I lost last year.
I'm not a soul-less nobody.

[avonleigh]

We haven't seen the worst of it yet.
There is supposedly a long lag between interest rate hikes and the effect they have on the economy.
It wont be until 2025 that the economy feels the full effect of 5% interest rates.
If they don't cut rates this year, we are in for more pain.

Surely it cannot get any worse for IT? We have to be at rock bottom now. I cannot see how it can possibly get any worse from here.

[Fraidycat]

I guess it's mostly down to an excess hiring spree post-covid, but it doesn't bode well for the economy if investment in new projects are being canned. Stuff being postponed/canned was something I heard a lot from agents while I was on the market.

We haven't seen the worst of it yet.
There is supposedly a long lag between interest rate hikes and the effect they have on the economy.
It wont be until 2025 that the economy feels the full effect of 5% interest rates.
If they don't cut rates this year, we are in for more pain.

[tsmith]

That says more about you than it does about any permanent role.

I'd also argue that Contracting is 50% Politics, 40% Invoicing and 10% Work.

It says nothing about me stranger internet with dog avatar. What percentage of perm is politics then? That was the conversation.

Contracting is 10% work? - you're either a troll or that says A LOT about you

[BlueSharp]

That says more about you than it does about any permanent role.

I'd also argue that Contracting is 50% Politics, 40% Invoicing and 10% Work.

Current client co is more 80% politics. Even in this market, I'm counting down the days until the summer sabbatical!

[WTFH]

Perm is 70% Politics - 30% actual work.
...
I tried to do the 'fractional' route with a perm role. They wanted 9am to 6pm - but didnt tell me the hours until after the offer.

That says more about you than it does about any permanent role.

I'd also argue that Contracting is 50% Politics, 40% Invoicing and 10% Work.

[DrGUID]

Found a permie dev role after being benched for 33 days. I think that's the longest it's taken since 2002. This one is replacing a retiree and it's for a lower salary than my last role. At least it's work from home. The downside is I keep being made redundant from these roles due to being out of the loop as regards internal politics (not that I'm interested in getting involved anyway).

JobServe openings hit 14K this morning... is that the lowest ever? I guess it's mostly down to an excess hiring spree post-covid, but it doesn't bode well for the economy if investment in new projects are being canned. Stuff being postponed/canned was something I heard a lot from agents while I was on the market.

Still haven't heard about my JSA claim... maybe they're inundated, or too busy "working from home". Don't really need the money, but it stops the government wasting it on stupid stuff.