Reply to: State of the Market

[agentzero]

I'll keep my identity to myself at least for now. I have a habit of saying things that have been unpopular with competitors and I want to be able to continue doing that.

You have a habit of being new and posting 4 times - so at this stage the most likely scenario is you're related to the Clarity structure in some way, such as being involved with the overall holding company or one of the other umbrellas now linked with Clarity.

Anybody staying with them now is mad. Plenty of UK located umbrellas to trust.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Must admit it's a first for me to hear an agent doesn't know what IR35 is. It's been around for 25 years now.

Agreed, it's far more common to find agents who claim they fully understand it and then make some kind of statement like "you can't get expenses off the client if you are outside", or "You can't be outside if you only work for one client" etc.

[SchumiStars]

What do you want to do when you leave school?

I wanna be an influencer.

Innit...

[malvolio]

,,,,,

What is interesting is that the changes in legislation coming down the line in April may have the unintended consequence of INCREASING the use of umbrella companies, especially by clients who currently directly engage contractors as it will mitigate some of the risk for them should an umbrella fail.

So the mitigation of the risk of an umbrella failing is to set up more umbrellas.

Hmmm, makes sense - in a Reevsian kind of way.

And the detail will be in the Green Book, not ITEPA

[jamesbrown]

I'm afraid that there is actually nothing to see here. I don't have any connection to Lucy or Clarity other than having met her a few times over the years. I run another umbrella company (which is fully UK owned by the way).

What is interesting is that the changes in legislation coming down the line in April may have the unintended consequence of INCREASING the use of umbrella companies, especially by clients who currently directly engage contractors as it will mitigate some of the risk for them should an umbrella fail.

But as usual the devil will be in the detail when the Finance Act is published.

Which umbrella company is that? No harm in being transparent...

The short-term is rather unpredictable, but umbrella companies are doomed in the long run because they are so highly contingent on a bizarre nexus of tax and employment law.

[jamesbrown]

Can you explain how someone using Clarity would suffer as a result of the company being owned by a non UK organisation? Many, many fully compliant UK umbrella providers have foreign ownership.

It's interesting that you have a user name of "Nothing to see here" and both of your two posts are about there being "nothing to see" w/r to this new ownership structure of Clarity. What is your connection to this?

Personally, I think umbrellas are doomed in the long run (as they should be - they will be seen as an anachronism of a particular period where tax and employment law interacted in very stupid ways) - but, in the short run, it can only be concerning for their employees that the ownership structure has changed and now appears to be decidedly less than perfectly transparent and straightforward.

[sadkingbilly]

Right, just bought myself some B&W P8 S2 headphones and a holiday in KSA for me and the Mrs.

a holiday?? in that medieval oppressive monarchy? - can you actually get a holiday visa (not a hadj visa)?

[rocktronAMP]

Maybe have another think about that: https://forums.contractoruk.com/umbr...-going-on.html

Oh shoot! That indeed is disappointing to read that thread: only time and other people's evidence will tell. Volatility sucks!

[rocktronAMP]

So, irrespective of whoever did the SDS (still yet to see one), the client has provided assurance that the role has been determined as outside IR35 by a dedicated external legal time. So, in my mind, whether it's wrong or right, that gets me off the hook. There's nothing in the contract that would expose me to any liability if the assessment was wrong, so I've just accepted the contract.

As for offer 2, and the agent's ignorance, if that comes off as well, 'in some shape or form', then IR35 probably isn't an issue, in the sense of IR35 'reforms', because the client definitely falls within the definition of a small company per the Companies Act 2006 (until my friend the most wonderful Reeves abolishes that in tomorrow's budget - you never know).

My post was largely about the confusion surrounding IR35 and how little the 'engager' or recruitment people really do know on the subject.

As for offer 1, you still need the Status Determination Statement on your desk (or viewable PDF) from an independent assesser of your contract as the supplier for services-for-work. for example IR35 Shield. If you were uncertain about the actual legal contract, you'd still pay for a QDOS check. I am confused by your offer 1 as you put it regarding liability.

As for offer 2, it has nothing to do with IR35 whatsoever, but the Off-Payroll Worker Rules of 2020/2021 that apply to the private sector. The Small Company exemption applies to the criteria*

• Annual Turnover - less than £15 million
• Balance Sheet Total - less than £7.5 milllion
• Average Employee Count - 50

*The small company must be genuinely independent without a parent

So provided you can grab 2 of the 3 above from reputable sources then you are in luck. I'd screenshot all of the data as evidence, PDFs just in case.

Hey man if you have issues with offer 1, I'd jump immediately onto offer 2: Jumping Jack Flash - income is king (or queen)

For myself, I am chasing the consultancy for a SDS for my own sanity, they promised week ago to furnish this to me in good time. Good luck!

[SchumiStars]

Right, just bought myself some B&W P8 S2 headphones and a holiday in KSA for me and the Mrs.

Getting out of London might be the ticket

Market is dead. Will always be dead from this point forward. There is no recovery. It will be an official 3yrs in March

Embrace the suck!

Today's plan:
1. Apply for jobs
2. Go cycling (25miles)
3. Lunch
4. Food shopping
5. Gym (back + squats)

[agentzero]

snip
Like you I am disappointed in my new contract rate, but hey it is 10 - 12 month contract, which in this dire market I will take. I am losing £75 per day compared to earlier rate gig, so something like £15,000 per year (220 * £75), but hey it is an Outside IR35 too! On the same day of the verbal offer, suddenly I had interview requests for a well-paid Inside IR35 dev job a day north of £700 per day and I had asked the agency / consultancy if I could choose my umbrella, they said yes, I'd gone with Lucy's Clarity. However, I'd already crossed the line. Two trains came into the depot. Sod's law and all.
snip

Maybe have another think about that: https://forums.contractoruk.com/umbr...-going-on.html

[avonleigh]

Must admit it's a first for me to hear an agent doesn't know what IR35 is. It's been around for 25 years now.

[oliverson]

Honestly fella ... for months this has been the same cycle. Are you actually looking for work or not

Yes I am and I've had no offers prior to these two in several months, so how can this be 'the same cycle'?

So, irrespective of whoever did the SDS (still yet to see one), the client has provided assurance that the role has been determined as outside IR35 by a dedicated external legal time. So, in my mind, whether it's wrong or right, that gets me off the hook. There's nothing in the contract that would expose me to any liability if the assessment was wrong, so I've just accepted the contract.

As for offer 2, and the agent's ignorance, if that comes off as well, 'in some shape or form', then IR35 probably isn't an issue, in the sense of IR35 'reforms', because the client definitely falls within the definition of a small company per the Companies Act 2006 (until my friend the most wonderful Reeves abolishes that in tomorrow's budget - you never know).

My post was largely about the confusion surrounding IR35 and how little the 'engager' or recruitment people really do know on the subject.

[sadkingbilly]

Maybe you are being too precious

yep.

[fatJock]

Work is never work until it's over the line, as I am now finding.

Honestly fella ... for months this has been the same cycle. Are you actually looking for work or not