Reply to: State of the Market

[Unix]

I was told this recently by an agent. He said advertising is too much hassle as you get so much crap coming in. He said he normally has enough candidates for roles already so advertising is a last resort.

I turned on open to work, for recruiters only as I am in contract currently, and got nothing. Last time I did that a few years ago had lots of messages. It's really dead out there .

[GJABS]

FFS this is one tulip market. Think I will kill myself might be easier than getting a contract.

Your worth to the world is defined by much more than what job you do.

[edison]

It's not a problem and has never been a problem - apart from the usual 'Insert Specialist SaaS Insurance Software' curve ball.

The problem with resourcing London Markets is that the working conditions are poor, that's why they can't fill the roles.

You'll always find people that will go into bat for London Markets but then you'll find they have to go into the office 3 days a week, suit, shoes Breitling watch with a 90+ minute commute. And then you realise you are in the City of London with all the crap that goes with working there.

I worked for a speciality insurer last year in Canary Wharf and thankfully it was the complete opposite to what you described. Unfortunately most of the insurance roles I see now are for London Markets and I don't have that experience. I'd even be willing to dust down my designer suit although I only have a TAG not a Breitling

[Bluenose]

Always an interesting one this along with the "must have banking experience" which I get in a way as these are highly regulated businesses and are so many others; but then I see the role description and specific insurance\banking experience wouldn't have any bearing.

So, in your view and experience of your client and presumably knowledge of the SA roles would not having insurance experience be a problem?

It's not a problem and has never been a problem - apart from the usual 'Insert Specialist SaaS Insurance Software' curve ball.

The problem with resourcing London Markets is that the working conditions are poor, that's why they can't fill the roles.

You'll always find people that will go into bat for London Markets but then you'll find they have to go into the office 3 days a week, suit, shoes Breitling watch with a 90+ minute commute. And then you realise you are in the City of London with all the crap that goes with working there.

[pjt]

I think there is a lot in that. I have had a good run for the last year or so while others have struggled but have struggled before while others weren't. The big change is the norm for many was walking into another contract within a couple of weeks of finishing the last. That isn't so common anymore.

Twenty suitable roles a day does sound a lot to be honest. Were they suitable for all of them?

I agree that applying on-line doesn't seem to work anymore. I tend to find agents tend to find me now which suggests a lot of contracts aren't even being advertised anymore.

I was told this recently by an agent. He said advertising is too much hassle as you get so much crap coming in. He said he normally has enough candidates for roles already so advertising is a last resort.

[edison]

FFS this is one tulip market. Think I will kill myself might be easier than getting a contract.

I'm starting to feel that way! Someone I know had an interview for a senior PMO role yesterday and it turned out the rate was just £150/day inside. Might as well stack supermarket shelves.

Seems the agent lied to him before his CV was sent over about the real rate...

Only thing keeping me going is a few friends have landed gigs in the last 3-4 weeks albeit at relatively low rates. Something has got to land soon

[edison]

I think there is a lot in that. I have had a good run for the last year or so while others have struggled but have struggled before while others weren't. The big change is the norm for many was walking into another contract within a couple of weeks of finishing the last. That isn't so common anymore.

Twenty suitable roles a day does sound a lot to be honest. Were they suitable for all of them?

I agree that applying on-line doesn't seem to work anymore. I tend to find agents tend to find me now which suggests a lot of contracts aren't even being advertised anymore.

Yes, most of the jobs he was going for were PMO related (Head Of/Lead/Manager etc) or Project Manager roles. He has lots of experience in both areas. I can only assume a fair proportion were not real roles.

[SchumiStars]

FFS this is one tulip market. Think I will kill myself might be easier than getting a contract.

[SussexSeagull]

I've often commented that there isn't one 'market' but multiple markets for different skillsets and sectors.

However, I'm struggling to reconcile the recent experiences of friends who are struggling to get any traction whatsoever for contract or perm roles that are advertised online. These are people I rate highly with good track records but in some cases they have applied for hundreds of jobs and barely had a sniff.

One of them has applied for up to twenty jobs a day over the last six weeks and not got a single interview. Miraculously, he managed to get hold of the recruiter for a couple of roles last week and now has two interviews lined up.

Applying online seems a waste of time now, you'd be better off spending the time on trying to make direct connections with recruiters or hiring managers at companies (however painful that is these days compared to only two years ago.)

I think there is a lot in that. I have had a good run for the last year or so while others have struggled but have struggled before while others weren't. The big change is the norm for many was walking into another contract within a couple of weeks of finishing the last. That isn't so common anymore.

Twenty suitable roles a day does sound a lot to be honest. Were they suitable for all of them?

I agree that applying on-line doesn't seem to work anymore. I tend to find agents tend to find me now which suggests a lot of contracts aren't even being advertised anymore.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Just had a call for an urgent Workday contract role - start immediate and work until July but needs to have current Workday partner certification. The only way to have certification is to be employed at a Workday partner (or have left one within the last 2 years). More purple unicorn territory.

[edison]

I've often commented that there isn't one 'market' but multiple markets for different skillsets and sectors.

However, I'm struggling to reconcile the recent experiences of friends who are struggling to get any traction whatsoever for contract or perm roles that are advertised online. These are people I rate highly with good track records but in some cases they have applied for hundreds of jobs and barely had a sniff.

One of them has applied for up to twenty jobs a day over the last six weeks and not got a single interview. Miraculously, he managed to get hold of the recruiter for a couple of roles last week and now has two interviews lined up.

Applying online seems a waste of time now, you'd be better off spending the time on trying to make direct connections with recruiters or hiring managers at companies (however painful that is these days compared to only two years ago.)

[dsc]

Unreal just seen another one! Same skills same niche but different location. This time the rate is slightly higher but not by much. I've not seen any roles this close to my skills in months and 2 come along at once but both with unworkable rates. Grim times.

I'm also in a fairly niche area (due to the package used) and seeing similar, either rates uber low, or getting rejections based on too high of a perm salary requirement. That or roles filled with internal hires, or roles being scrapped altogether and re-posted in a "different configuration" whatever the heck that means...

I'm not too bothered atm as I still have a chance at landing a perm role outside of the UK for the client I'm currently with, which for me kills two birds with one stone (leave the UK and go perm), but if that doesn't work out I'm utterly fecked

[pjt]

Yep this is the reality...am earning less than I was 15 year ago I'm on an inside role; and that is about to end as perm person joining who is 20 years younger and they are paying c£50k.
A friend of mine also looking and he told me that some jobs have 200 plus applicants...what a mess!
I'm thinking of ways to retire and try an alternative career as I can't see me getting a good run at this any longer...tried to move to perm and got nowhere...

Unreal just seen another one! Same skills same niche but different location. This time the rate is slightly higher but not by much. I've not seen any roles this close to my skills in months and 2 come along at once but both with unworkable rates. Grim times.

[Cookielove]

Just seen a role thats my ideal fit basically by niche. Problem is the rate is a third what I was getting on my last gig and its inside IR35. Thats lower than the rate I took for my first contract way back.
Not going to apply but the thing that really shocked me was the jobs be on for less than an hour and its had 8 applicants already.

Yep this is the reality...am earning less than I was 15 year ago I'm on an inside role; and that is about to end as perm person joining who is 20 years younger and they are paying c£50k.
A friend of mine also looking and he told me that some jobs have 200 plus applicants...what a mess!
I'm thinking of ways to retire and try an alternative career as I can't see me getting a good run at this any longer...tried to move to perm and got nowhere...

[avonleigh]

I have worked for Investment banks for most of my career and have never seen lack of banking experience as a deal breaker for developers.

Can't speak for developers but for testers it's an issue. I have applied for investment banking roles for the last 27 years and not even got to interview stage for contract or perm. Not once.