• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
Collapse

You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

  • You are not logged in. If you are already registered, fill in the form below to log in, or follow the "Sign Up" link to register a new account.
  • You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
  • If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Previously on "State of the Market"

Collapse

  • Katalyst
    replied
    Originally posted by victorantos View Post
    I got a friend contractor for 10+ years. He was struggling to find an outside IR35 contract at a normal for him rate, £600-£650.

    His solution, that kind of works, got a couple of perms jobs at the same time, also is looking to take on another inside contract

    He is currently getting:

    - £50K perm
    - £65K perm
    - about to get a £400/day inside

    Total would be 50+65+(70?) = 185K/year or eq to £800/day outside IR35! plus you get the 20 days holiday

    Obviously this is remote only at the moment, and in a month or two it will require onsite 1-2 days a week.

    What do you think about this? Is it sustainable? Is it "legal"?
    I did this for over six months. I had one permie role at 90k+ and an outside of IR35 role at 650/pd. It worked in large part because the end client for the role happened to be in the US, so I rarely had to worry about overlapping meetings. But the workload was so light in both roles, that it was ridiculously easy. I lived off the permie role and just banked the contract money. I think this is a very viable solution - one permie and one contract or two contracts.

    The way I see it, I've been doing this work for over 20 years and I can crank out solid code much faster than a junior or a midrange dev, but the day rate market resistance maxes out at 700/pd if you're really hot stuff. But being twice as good won't get you 1400/pd, not because you're not worth it, but because nobody wants to see a single individual earn that kind of money. So how can someone capitalize on their speed and efficiency? Create a product - that's like playing the lottery, start your own agency meh .. I say this is it. Take two contracts at 500/pd, which is easy enough and earn 1000/pd or more ..

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonManc
    replied
    Originally posted by BlueSharp View Post


    There was often a requirement for London based roles that you had to be local to London let alone just in the UK. That requirement is long gone and the London premium for roles is diminishing as they accept more remote working is going to be a major factor for applicates.
    Even for London roles, Birmingham and even Manchester are commutable each day for the most determined. It sometimes took me less time to get to Canary Wharf from north Manchester on a Monday morning for a contract than one of the permies from the outskirts of Cambridge who drove in. Plus I'd had two hours of chilling out and breakfast on the train rather than stressed out crawling down the M11.

    As someone else said, timezones is more key and how much you want your support services available at the same time as your end users. The US do it a lot by downshoring from the New York area down to the Carolinas - there's no reason we shouldn't be doing similar and making better use of the northern powerhouse that has failed to materialise.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueSharp
    replied
    Originally posted by lecyclist View Post

    Totally agree.

    To differentiate yourself at the interview stage for roles requiring generic interchangeable resources, and demanding top rate, is impossible. I would suggest though, even for these types of roles, the premium of being a native english speaker working in an international english-speaking working environment is still an edge in many cases. Even more so, IMO, for remote work where there are many opportunities for misunderstandings to occur. Especially where unclear business requirements, complex processes and multi-stage data integration is concerned.

    Technology is becoming more complex, not simpler, and people are not getting any smarter.

    IMO contracting will never become a purely transactional relationship when $$$x < $$$y, meaning the guy in Poland gets the role you were chasing because he wants €300 a day while you wanted £400. If he's better than you with more experience, that's a different story. And why shouldn't he get the role if he's more skilled and can communicate better than you in his non-native language?

    There's more than enough work to go around, the challenge is to differentiate ourselves sufficiently to secure the better roles.

    There was often a requirement for London based roles that you had to be local to London let alone just in the UK. That requirement is long gone and the London premium for roles is diminishing as they accept more remote working is going to be a major factor for applicates.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesbrown
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post

    There's a worldwide shortage of developers, there will be plenty of well paid remote jobs.
    It really depends on your skillset. If you have a niche, in demand, skillset, then nothing will change (for as long as your skillset is niche and in demand) because you've always worked remotely for clients from across the world (else you moved around as a permie). If you don't, then the "globalisation" of your market can obviously have pretty profound impacts, even if only from the churn of companies realising that outsourcing has downsides too (i.e., switching back and forth between outsourced and local teams). There is no single market, no single impact from outsourcing. "Globalisation" is fantastic for high-end contractors.

    Leave a comment:


  • PerfectStorm
    replied
    Galloping towards a likely extension now (this'll be my third - outside of IR35). Would quite like to quit and go on a decent holiday, but seeing as we can't go anywhere, I may just have to take the work.

    Leave a comment:


  • lecyclist
    replied
    Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post

    There's a worldwide shortage of developers, there will be plenty of well paid remote jobs.
    Totally agree.

    To differentiate yourself at the interview stage for roles requiring generic interchangeable resources, and demanding top rate, is impossible. I would suggest though, even for these types of roles, the premium of being a native english speaker working in an international english-speaking working environment is still an edge in many cases. Even more so, IMO, for remote work where there are many opportunities for misunderstandings to occur. Especially where unclear business requirements, complex processes and multi-stage data integration is concerned.

    Technology is becoming more complex, not simpler, and people are not getting any smarter.

    IMO contracting will never become a purely transactional relationship when $$$x < $$$y, meaning the guy in Poland gets the role you were chasing because he wants €300 a day while you wanted £400. If he's better than you with more experience, that's a different story. And why shouldn't he get the role if he's more skilled and can communicate better than you in his non-native language?

    There's more than enough work to go around, the challenge is to differentiate ourselves sufficiently to secure the better roles.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlasterBates
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post

    I'm in my nth role where they tried to outsource the work outside the UK but ended up using UK based technical people. It's been going on since broadband became wide spread in the UK.

    Companies try to outsource entire project teams to cheaper countries. They find they can't get people to fill the team, so have to use resources from more expensive countries like the UK.

    The only downside in working in such a team is that you may have to have meetings very early in the morning or late at night....
    A ex-colleague of mine in Germany works remotely for a UK company. I regularly get enquiries for remote positions. The last company I worked for expanded locally as they were also taking on offshore developers. Using offshoring developers simply means there's more money to pay the onshore developers.

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
    I'm in my nth role where they tried to outsource the work outside the UK but ended up using UK based technical people. It's been going on since broadband became wide spread in the UK.

    Companies try to outsource entire project teams to cheaper countries. They find they can't get people to fill the team, so have to use resources from more expensive countries like the UK.

    The only downside in working in such a team is that you may have to have meetings very early in the morning or late at night....

    Leave a comment:


  • BlasterBates
    replied
    Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
    There's a worldwide shortage of developers, there will be plenty of well paid remote jobs.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesbrown
    replied
    Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

    Why the trigger warning?
    Faily Dail.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fraidycat
    replied
    Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
    Why the trigger warning? it is a pretty obvious logical progression.

    If you want everyone in the office, then you hire local people.

    But when everyone is already remote, new hires don't need to be local any more.

    Hybrid working models dont suffer from this. 2 or 3 days in the office and 2 or 3 days at home. Everyone still has to be local.

    When the likes of Facebook want to offer full time remote working to employees, you can bet they are thinking about $$$$$ savings they can make and not doing it out of kindness.
    Last edited by Fraidycat; Today, 02:41.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesbrown
    replied
    Trigger warning, it's the Fail.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ort-finds.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Fraidycat
    replied
    Originally posted by eek View Post
    The actual issue for the person with two full time jobs would be double use of NI allowances - although I'm not sure how that would play out.
    If you do two jobs with 2 different employers you get double NI allowances. It is not like income tax where you only get one.

    Another weird thing about the NI allowance is it is allocated weekly, not annual. If you earned say 10K in a single a month and then quit you would pay a lot more NI than if you worked a full year and earned the same 10K over 52 weeks. There is no overpayment or refund like there would be with income tax, it is by design.
    Last edited by Fraidycat; 15 June 2021, 07:03.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoggyMcCBoggyFace
    replied
    I"ve not needed to look for a job for 9 yrs now but starting to, apart from LinkedIn profile where is good these days to upload cv to or still just jobserve ? I'm up for both contract or perm and is the market really that bad in the south ? I have in demand skill set data, big data, BI, Python, ML/AI etc but not getting any bites for things I apply for.

    Leave a comment:


  • sira
    replied
    Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post

    it's holiday season now... people will take time off. not sure when it will end but maybe wait a few more weeks. it was picking up strong before june and confident will do the same after holiday season.
    Hope you're right, although I think it's more than just holidays. Re-connected with my usual agents today and it seems a lot of the standalone recruiters they had on the interim desks have been shafted. Apparently there's been a lot more permie hiring vs. contracts.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X