Start this Monday but no contract

[Wanderer]

What I wouldn't do is turn up having already been presented with a contract that I wasn't happy with and hadn't signed, if negotiation was still ongoing; I'd be worried turning up could constitute acceptance of the last contract that was exchanged.

Good point and you would be right to be concerned - this is known in law as Battle of the forms.

[Old Greg]

I'd register for DueDil and (if they are a small SME) see if they've got the green to pay you.

qh

+1 I had my suspicions about an SME a few weeks back. 30 minutes after getting onto duedil I had the 6 month liquidators' report of the overseas company that had been the sole owner of the SME before 999 new shares (representing 99.9% ownership) of the SME's shares were transferred to another similarly named company with identical ownership etc. etc.

I politely made my excuses.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I wouldn't let the complete lack of signed contract stop me from turning up on day one, so long as:

a) Rate and billing terms have been agreed
b) The contract was made available to me by the end of the first day, or I won't be in for day two (and they will be getting billed for day one regardless)

What I wouldn't do is turn up having already been presented with a contract that I wasn't happy with and hadn't signed, if negotiation was still ongoing; I'd be worried turning up could constitute acceptance of the last contract that was exchanged.

[TheFaQQer]

Personally, I would lean towards starting work with a view to cutting the contract short if they couldn't come up with agreeable terms.

That presumes that there is an easy way out of the contract.

I'd give the company a sample PCG or Qdos contract, and point them to the PCG guidance on the new legislation, and check that they are happy with that.

[quackhandle]

Hi, I'm a newbie to his forum, although I have been a contractor on and off for the last 6 yrs or so. This has never happened before though. Supposed to be starting with a company on Monday for a 3 month contract. It is direct with the company, no agency.

I've been asking to see the contract ASAP, but they have been saying they are having to make "amendments" to their ltd company contracts because of recent legislation ?!? Despite my requests , I still haven't seen anything.

It's a new client, I don't know much about them and it was they who approached me for this job, not the other way round.

I'm not quite sure what's in my best interest to do. I'm thinking of turning up on Monday and saying if I don't get a mutually agreed contract by the end of today, then I can't return. By turning up am I accepting something even though I've not seen a contract ? The rate has been agreed via an email from the MD.

Many thanks
Liz

I'd register for DueDil and (if they are a small SME) see if they've got the green to pay you.

qh

[jamesbrown]

YMMV, but they won't get this sorted unless you give them a reason. Personally, aside from any other risks, I wouldn't operate without a contract for lack of valid PI insurance (then again, some contractors don't even bother with that).

[mudskipper]

I've worked without having the contract or renewal , I find it is not unusual. I did a 3 month contract on the basis of a verbal agreement.

Sure there's a risk but not worth losing a week's billable time and of course not to forget there is a project deadline, so by starting late puts you under more pressure, and less likely to get a day's holiday when you want it.

If you are worried I would suggest send an e-mail or letter stating your understanding of the basic contract terms.

We've had many posts from contractors with written contracts signed, who either get terminated or don't get paid. This is much more of a risk than the paperwork being held up.

WHS. Make sure you specify payment terms. When I worked direct, payments came anything from 1 week to 3 months after invoicing.

[BlasterBates]

I've worked without having the contract or renewal , I find it is not unusual. I did a 3 month contract on the basis of a verbal agreement.

Sure there's a risk but not worth losing a week's billable time and of course not to forget there is a project deadline, so by starting late puts you under more pressure, and less likely to get a day's holiday when you want it.

If you are worried I would suggest send an e-mail or letter stating your understanding of the basic contract terms.

We've had many posts from contractors with written contracts signed, who either get terminated or don't get paid. This is much more of a risk than the paperwork being held up.

[ew2712]

Thank you so much.

Just joined the PCG and sent an AWR Comfort letter to the client along with a statement to say I expect a "mutually agreed" contract to be made available to me by the end of my 1st day.

They've had just under 2 weeks to create a new contract, as that was how long ago we agreed the deal.

We shall see .. I just hope they don't assume I'll accept anything they put infront of me, as they will be gravely mistaken.

Thanks all

Liz

[malvolio]

This is probably what I will end up doing. The MD mentioned a couple of times during our meetings about new legislation that clearly concerned him. That the client company would become responsible for the Income tax of a Ltd Co contractor (I am not a single entity Ltd Co) if they were deemed to be working within IR35. I'd always assumed it was the contractors responsibility for stating if they were working in or outside. ?!?!

I'm assuming his lawyers/accountants will be creating a contract heavily favoured on the client side... which is why I'm slightly concerned.

Thank you both so far

Liz

Join the PCG and you will find an explanation of the "new" legislation and why it doesn't apply to ltd Co contractors...

But have a read of this anyway

[ew2712]

I would lean towards starting work with a view to cutting the contract short if they couldn't come up with agreeable terms.

This is probably what I will end up doing. The MD mentioned a couple of times during our meetings about new legislation that clearly concerned him. That the client company would become responsible for the Income tax of a Ltd Co contractor (I am not a single entity Ltd Co) if they were deemed to be working within IR35. I'd always assumed it was the contractors responsibility for stating if they were working in or outside. ?!?!

I'm assuming his lawyers/accountants will be creating a contract heavily favoured on the client side... which is why I'm slightly concerned.

Thank you both so far

Liz

[Wanderer]

Send them PCG contract today and work on the basis of that.

This ^^^ is probably what you should have done as soon as you were offered the contract. They may counter you by saying they have their own contract or they may just read it, get it reviewed and say, hey this is pretty well written, we are happy to engage the contractor with this contract and it means we don't have to draft our own one. A win all round.


As for starting work, presuming they have agreed key facts like rate and duration, you DO have a contract and it's just that the details are not formalised. I would tell them that you will accept the job "subject to a mutually acceptable written contract". the question now is do you start work without a written contract and it's a tricky one.

You have to decide if you are willing to lose a few billable days waiting for the contract and maintain a strong negotiating position or if you are willing to start work and possibly not be able to negotiate as hard as you wanted to.

It depends on your attitude to risk. If you start work and they come up with a completely unacceptable contract (disguised employee) then you may even walk away from the job without pay. Alternatively, if you don't start work then you won't have any chance of being paid at all.

Personally, I would lean towards starting work with a view to cutting the contract short if they couldn't come up with agreeable terms. I've seen many businesses that work this way - they will start on a job with a vague agreement and then negotiate like hell when the work is half done. It can sound a bit unprofessional and it's a stressful way to do business so I try to avoid it. Some people (eg tradespeople) seem to think it's a reasonable way to work though.

[cojak]

Send them PCG contract today and work on the basis of that.

Join the PCG if you're not already with them.

QDOS may have a contract you can use but I'm not sure.

[ew2712]

Hi, I'm a newbie to his forum, although I have been a contractor on and off for the last 6 yrs or so. This has never happened before though. Supposed to be starting with a company on Monday for a 3 month contract. It is direct with the company, no agency.

I've been asking to see the contract ASAP, but they have been saying they are having to make "amendments" to their ltd company contracts because of recent legislation ?!? Despite my requests , I still haven't seen anything.

It's a new client, I don't know much about them and it was they who approached me for this job, not the other way round.

I'm not quite sure what's in my best interest to do. I'm thinking of turning up on Monday and saying if I don't get a mutually agreed contract by the end of today, then I can't return. By turning up am I accepting something even though I've not seen a contract ? The rate has been agreed via an email from the MD.

Many thanks
Liz