Tory (Scum) Brexit

[Cirrus]

if we revoke A50 and stay then there is still a sizable chunk of politicians and people (30%+) that will never get over it.

The thing about gamblers (ie Brexiteers) is they quickly suppress/forget their losses. That's how they sustain a positive view of their situation - by factoring out the negatives. They'll be upset they were cheated but they'll move on, like they always do.

[Hobosapien]

Seeing as there are blurred lines between centralist blues and reds, maybe they should form a new majority party to fill the gap that is now the Liberal Democrat wasteland and let the old guard cons and labour die along with their extreme ideals.

As it stands May is going for the 'my deal or it's armageddon no deal' to try to force her own party to back her and hope there are enough labour rebels not interested in a 'remain' or 'proper brexit' (both requiring extension of article 50 deadline to get even on the table, that in itself is not confirmed even possible) to get her deal through parliament.

So much politics yet no politician putting the people first. Oh well, they never do.

[meridian]

I don't agree with you. People should be grown up enough to see through distortions, bias, lies etc. However it's academic. What's important is the bottom line. We need to get the country out of this ridiculous Brexit situation and get back to normality. Back to reality. It looks like we're heading for Referendum II. Six month's time and the nonsense will all be history. Don't overthink the route. We just want to get there in one piece.

Hmmm. Not sure I agree here. There are really only two options, stay or leave:

Regardless of whether it's May's Deal or No Deal, if the UK does not revoke A50 then by operation of law we are leaving. Whatever route we take to leave, we will then spend the next x years / decades negotiating new trade agreements etc. Plenty of opportunity for the Brexiters to continue to blame the EU for not giving them what they want.

Regardless of whether it is a new (people's) referendum or parliament makes a unilateral decision, if we revoke A50 and stay then there is still a sizable chunk of politicians and people (30%+) that will never get over it. "Destroying democracy", "they never listen to us", etc. That sizable chunk is now far larger than pre-referendum when only fringe politicians cared and the majority of people couldn't give two hoots.

Either way, this tulipfest is going to rumble on for years, better get used to it.

(There is a quiet third way, which is to revoke A50, stay, kick out all the UKIP/Tory MEPs in July and replace them with sensible people, Tories and Labour split into left, right, and centrist, and a new centrist party takes power in a GE. Not likely though).

[Cirrus]

we are being sold half truths and lies and we are by and large lapping it up and taking it as gospel.

I don't agree with you. People should be grown up enough to see through distortions, bias, lies etc. However it's academic. What's important is the bottom line. We need to get the country out of this ridiculous Brexit situation and get back to normality. Back to reality. It looks like we're heading for Referendum II. Six month's time and the nonsense will all be history. Don't overthink the route. We just want to get there in one piece.

[Eirikur]

As long as chairman Jeremy "Hezbollah" Corbyn is at the labour helm no tory wipe out will take place.

[Yorkie62]

The recent STRESS TEST of the resilience of the UK banking sector by the BoE - which you, like many other Wailers on here are lapping up as not being a stress test but being a prediction - has proved that the banks are resilient enough to survive a particularly bad scenario. That’s not the BoE saying this is our assessment and this is the truth.

Do you recognise there is a difference between what you have believed and what actually happened?

You misunderstood my point, or may be I didn't articulate it well enough, either way.

It is not about what the BoE actually did it is about how that is now being sold to us, and used by some on this forum, to justify their position. The BoE and the Treasury did some modelling and came to a conclusion. That conclusion is now being sold to us, largely by the current government, to justify why the only deal on the table is the best deal as, the future of the economy will not be as good under the current deal as it would if we remained in the EU but it will be far better than is we leave under a no deal. However, as you correctly state, that modelling was aim at stress testing, in the case of the BoE modelling, the banking system. To stress test a system you use the worst case scenario as an input and see what come out. This is now being sold to us, the public as being the truth, i.e. this is what will happen. All I am saying is no its not the truth and once again we are being sold half truths and lies and we are by and large lapping it up and taking it as gospel.

[BlasterBates]

Interestingly the only the way the Tories can save themselves is reversing the referendum. If May or any other deal goes through they'll be wiped out, if they reverse it then Labour remoaners will switch. They've now lost the Eurosceptics regardless of what they do so there's no point pandering to them any more.

[WTFH]

The recent assessments from the BoE and the treasury are being sold to us as the truth. But they are both hypothetical results from a model, and as we all know any model will only deliver the result based upon its inputs, i.e. Sh*t in....Sh*t out.

The recent STRESS TEST of the resilience of the UK banking sector by the BoE - which you, like many other Wailers on here are lapping up as not being a stress test but being a prediction - has proved that the banks are resilient enough to survive a particularly bad scenario. That’s not the BoE saying this is our assessment and this is the truth.

Do you recognise there is a difference between what you have believed and what actually happened?

[Yorkie62]

'Botched Brexit' could spark electoral wipeout for Tories, rebels say

Theresa May’s Brexit deal could lead to electoral armageddon for the Conservative party, three leading Tory rebel MPs and former ministers have warned as they threw their weight behind a “people’s vote”.

Here is an Hypothesis for you.

Q. Why do you think that so many MPs are now throwing their weight behind a peoples vote.

A. Plausible deniability. If the MPs hand over the decision to the people, regardless of the result, they can legitimately say, "well it's what the majority of the people voted for. that's democracy for you", i.e. they absolve themselves of all responsibility and come out of the process having dodged all the sh*t from the fan. A peoples vote will leave us even more divisive than we are now.

Is May's deal a bad deal? Having listened to the arguments on both sides...I honestly don't know.
However, I do think that both sides, as they were in the referendum, spinning the truth to suit their argument. The recent assessments from the BoE and the treasury are being sold to us as the truth. But they are both hypothetical results from a model, and as we all know any model will only deliver the result based upon its inputs, i.e. Sh*t in....Sh*t out. So where does this leave us....foooked if I know, and if I wasn't actually living this nightmare in the UK it would make better viewing than any TV soap or sitcom.

[NotAllThere]

The Tories deserve to be wiped out for the mess they have created in this once great country.

True, but what has Britain done to deserve a Corbyn government?

[Whorty]

'Botched Brexit' could spark electoral wipeout for Tories, rebels say

Theresa May’s Brexit deal could lead to electoral armageddon for the Conservative party, three leading Tory rebel MPs and former ministers have warned as they threw their weight behind a “people’s vote”.

In his first major speech since resigning as transport minister earlier this month, Jo Johnson joined David Willetts and Justine Greening to sketch out a future in which their party faced an existential crisis and would have its brand thrashed by the economic fallout from Brexit.

The package their party leader had agreed with the EU was described by Johnson as a “botched deal” that would put British firms at a competitive disadvantage and fail the services sector, which he said had been “scandalously” neglected during negotiations on Brexit.

He added: “Brexit is seen as a project driven by the Conservative party and this half-baked, worst of all worlds Brexit could trigger an electoral defeat on the scale of 1997, or worse, with this ‘Tory Brexit’ label an albatross around our necks for years to come.”

Such an outcome would “roll out the red carpet for Jeremy Corbyn” and lead to what he described as “communist ideologues” coming to power in Britain.

'Botched Brexit' could spark electoral wipeout for Tories, rebels say | Politics | The Guardian

TBF, i think it's deeper than just May's deal. Cameron should have kicked out the Eurosceptics out and sent them to UKIP where they belong, but instead he thought he could silence them via a referendum. He under estimated how far these scum would go, with their lies and misinformation, to get their way.

The Tories deserve to be wiped out for the mess they have created in this once great country.

[AtW]

'Botched Brexit' could spark electoral wipeout for Tories, rebels say

Theresa May’s Brexit deal could lead to electoral armageddon for the Conservative party, three leading Tory rebel MPs and former ministers have warned as they threw their weight behind a “people’s vote”.

In his first major speech since resigning as transport minister earlier this month, Jo Johnson joined David Willetts and Justine Greening to sketch out a future in which their party faced an existential crisis and would have its brand thrashed by the economic fallout from Brexit.

The package their party leader had agreed with the EU was described by Johnson as a “botched deal” that would put British firms at a competitive disadvantage and fail the services sector, which he said had been “scandalously” neglected during negotiations on Brexit.

He added: “Brexit is seen as a project driven by the Conservative party and this half-baked, worst of all worlds Brexit could trigger an electoral defeat on the scale of 1997, or worse, with this ‘Tory Brexit’ label an albatross around our necks for years to come.”

Such an outcome would “roll out the red carpet for Jeremy Corbyn” and lead to what he described as “communist ideologues” coming to power in Britain.

'Botched Brexit' could spark electoral wipeout for Tories, rebels say | Politics | The Guardian