Reply to: Brexit McBrexitface

[AtW]

The cost of running a frictionless border between the UK and the EU, which obviously the UK would have to pay for and which would allow business to run as they currently do and allow them to adhere to EU rules is around 350 million per week.

In real money - EUROs.

Or 3.5 bln+ in after-Brexit Sterling.

HTH

[Whorty]

You're misrepresenting Brexiteers' point. The EU does not stand accused (by brexiteers) of making Ireland vote for the same treaty; it stands accused of making Ireland vote for membership of the EU, that being facilitated by either treaty A, or treaty B.

Ignoring the fact that this is another lie (yes, Brexiters do constantly go on about how Ireland were forced to keep voting until they gave the correct answer), what would you have preferred? That Ireland had been given no vote by their government and instead taken directly into the EU under the Lisbon Treaty as per the UK? Or that they were not allowed into the EU at all? Given the Irish voting public voted through the treaty, I think it's clear they are happy to be in the EU. You may not be, but that doesn't mean the rest of Europe supports your narrow minded view.

[WTFH]

The cost of running a frictionless border between the UK and the EU, which obviously the UK would have to pay for and which would allow business to run as they currently do and allow them to adhere to EU rules is around 350 million per week.

You could write that on the side of the Ulsterbus Goldliner service from Belfast to Dublin.

[BlasterBates]

I can. Look at the number of UK government technology projects that have actually worked, weren't massively over budget, and weren't massively late. It's not encouraging...

The cost of running a frictionless border between the UK and the EU, which obviously the UK would have to pay for and which would allow business to run as they currently do and allow them to adhere to EU rules is around 350 million per week.

[Mordac]

I can. Look at the number of UK government technology projects that have actually worked, weren't massively over budget, and weren't massively late. It's not encouraging...

It certainly isn't encouraging. Perhaps the importance of this one (if it happens) will focus minds somewhat. Doubt it though...

[WTFH]

Simple maths should tell you that the EU does not want the UK to leave. We are the second biggest contributor, and will leave a c.£10bn annual revenue shortfall. It is (perfectly understandably) in their interests to "just say no" to any proposal, and the 27 (who will either pay more or receive less) would obviously want to make it difficult for the UK to leave.
The only UK proposal I am aware of was the suggestion that we use technology and cctv at the border. Whether that's workable, I can't say, not enough specific detail was published. The EU proposal (a border in the Irish Sea) is a complete non-starter - they know this, which is precisely why they proposed it, to stir things up.
You are looking at this from one side, in exactly the same way the a Leaver is looking at it from the other side.

I accept that, but the poster had stated that the EU had rejected ALL the UK proposals. When he was asked to tells us about all these proposals, he fell silent. That's not about taking sides, that's asking someone to back up a claim with some evidence.

Someone on another Brexit thread claimed I knew nothing about a particular subject. I provided evidence to show that I knew a little about it.

That's the difference. Provide evidence to back up claims and make sure the evidence is relevant.

[NotAllThere]

The only UK proposal I am aware of was the suggestion that we use technology and cctv at the border. Whether that's workable, I can't say...

I can. Look at the number of UK government technology projects that have actually worked, weren't massively over budget, and weren't massively late. It's not encouraging...

[GJABS]

The LIE you idiots put across to your fellow idiots is the Irish were told to go back and vote again on the same Treaty until they accepted it. This is simply not true. The truth is that they were offered A, they rejected it. They were then offered B (which they wanted) and they accepted it.

Come on oh brainy one, your turn. Any more lies you want to peddle?

You're misrepresenting Brexiteers' point. The EU does not stand accused (by brexiteers) of making Ireland vote for the same treaty; it stands accused of making Ireland vote for membership of the EU, that being facilitated by either treaty A, or treaty B.

[BR14]

Simple maths should tell you that the EU does not want the UK to leave. We are the second biggest contributor, and will leave a c.£10bn annual revenue shortfall. It is (perfectly understandably) in their interests to "just say no" to any proposal, and the 27 (who will either pay more or receive less) would obviously want to make it difficult for the UK to leave.
The only UK proposal I am aware of was the suggestion that we use technology and cctv at the border. Whether that's workable, I can't say, not enough specific detail was published. The EU proposal (a border in the Irish Sea) is a complete non-starter - they know this, which is precisely why they proposed it, to stir things up.
You are looking at this from one side, in exactly the same way the a Leaver is looking at it from the other side.

a balanced view in the B****t thread? well, there's a turnup.

[Mordac]

Are you saying that the EU is stalling on the Irish border issue, or is it the UK who aren't coming up with suggestions?

In another thread, a Brexit supporter claimed that the EU had crushed all the UKs proposals for the border, when I challenged him to tell me what the proposals were, he said that he didn't now because they were not made public.
He didn't know if there were any proposals made by the UK
He didn't know if they had been presented or discussed
He didn't know if they had been crushed/rejected by the EU

But he was happy to repeat the falsehood that he had sheepishly believed which is that the EU is rejecting every proposal.

Simple maths should tell you that the EU does not want the UK to leave. We are the second biggest contributor, and will leave a c.£10bn annual revenue shortfall. It is (perfectly understandably) in their interests to "just say no" to any proposal, and the 27 (who will either pay more or receive less) would obviously want to make it difficult for the UK to leave.
The only UK proposal I am aware of was the suggestion that we use technology and cctv at the border. Whether that's workable, I can't say, not enough specific detail was published. The EU proposal (a border in the Irish Sea) is a complete non-starter - they know this, which is precisely why they proposed it, to stir things up.
You are looking at this from one side, in exactly the same way the a Leaver is looking at it from the other side.

[Whorty]

It isn't a lie. The Irish were invited to vote twice when that could enable something that the EU wanted (Ireland to accept the Lisbon Treaty), yet from 1975 to 2016 the British were refused a referendum when one of the options could enable something that the EU did not want (Britain to leave the EU).

Lies.

The Irish were asked to accept the Lisbon Treaty. Let's call this A.

The Irish rejected A because of some clauses. Let's call these X, Y, Z.

The Irish government went to the EU (which included the UK, for the hard of thinking) and said, the Irish can't accept A, but if you change the terms for X, Y and Z we will go back to the Irish electorate and see if this is what they want. The Irish are a sensible people, you see, and know how to negotiate.

So now we have a Treaty that is B = A - X - Y - Z

The Irish people were given a second vote, to accept B. Now, given the Irish people had said that they wanted B, and the EU had offered B, it wasn't much of a surprise that the voters (by a large majority) voted to accept B.

The LIE you idiots put across to your fellow idiots is the Irish were told to go back and vote again on the same Treaty until they accepted it. This is simply not true. The truth is that they were offered A, they rejected it. They were then offered B (which they wanted) and they accepted it.

Come on oh brainy one, your turn. Any more lies you want to peddle?

[darmstadt]

It isn't a lie. The Irish were invited to vote twice when that could enable something that the EU wanted (Ireland to accept the Lisbon Treaty), yet from 1975 to 2016 the British were refused a referendum when one of the options could enable something that the EU did not want (Britain to leave the EU).

Who refused this referendum, the EU? Or was it the government who saw the advantage of staying in the EU

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

[GJABS]

Typical tw@tty Brexiter fake comment. The Irish rejected the Lisbon Treaty due to some points they did not support. The Irish government negotiated with the EU the changes to the Treaty that the Irish voters wanted. The Irish got the concessions off the EU, these were then put to the Irish public to vote on and they OVERWHELMINGLY voted in favour of the treaty.

Typical Brexiter lies that the Irish were made to vote over and over until they gave the answer the EU wanted.

Good try, but no cigar.

It isn't a lie. The Irish were invited to vote twice when that could enable something that the EU wanted (Ireland to accept the Lisbon Treaty), yet from 1975 to 2016 the British were refused a referendum when one of the options could enable something that the EU did not want (Britain to leave the EU).

[WTFH]

You're half-right, but the root cause is the EU not wanting us to leave under any circumstances, and stalling on the Irish border issue is designed to ensure Parliament either overturns Brexit entirely, or forces a second vote at the time most likely to deliver for Remain this time.
Whether that tactic is successful depends on the strength of the PMs spine, and as time goes on, I'm becoming less certain that she actually has one at all...

Are you saying that the EU is stalling on the Irish border issue, or is it the UK who aren't coming up with suggestions?

In another thread, a Brexit supporter claimed that the EU had crushed all the UKs proposals for the border, when I challenged him to tell me what the proposals were, he said that he didn't now because they were not made public.
He didn't know if there were any proposals made by the UK
He didn't know if they had been presented or discussed
He didn't know if they had been crushed/rejected by the EU

But he was happy to repeat the falsehood that he had sheepishly believed which is that the EU is rejecting every proposal.

[Mordac]

it does in ireland and is the root cause of all the failed brexit negotiations

You're half-right, but the root cause is the EU not wanting us to leave under any circumstances, and stalling on the Irish border issue is designed to ensure Parliament either overturns Brexit entirely, or forces a second vote at the time most likely to deliver for Remain this time.
Whether that tactic is successful depends on the strength of the PMs spine, and as time goes on, I'm becoming less certain that she actually has one at all...