Reply to: JRM says EU citizen have to leave UK after brexit

[BlasterBates]

You thickos can expect all you want, all you're going to get is lowered living standards and poorer services.
Eeveryone knows, post Brexit, taxes are going to rise and/or spending will have to fall, just to keep at the same level.

The Boris and JRM in the ERG group are pushing their hard Brexit plan, which includes reducing taxes.

It would be interesting as to how this Trumpesque plan would work.

Effectively it would mean a 350 million a week Brexit dividend for the Somerset gentry.

[meridian]

maybe when the farmers pay a sensible wage so the fruit pickers don't live in squalor then the "lazy" brits would want the job? Or maybe as has happened since 1947 seasonal fruit picking visas will be granted for those rich land owners who are too tight to pay a living wage can still get cheap labour?


No we haven't got it yet, we expect the International companies to pay some tax rather than exploiting slave labour - how about you feckwit?

How much more than minimum wage do you think farmers should pay?

The main problem with seasonal fruit picking isn’t the wages. It’s “seasonal”. It’s really only suitable for people that intend only on short term work where they don’t depend on benefits in any way for the rest of the year (benefits are cut if they have any sort of employment).

Which really only makes fruit picking suitable for students or short term migrants. Exactly the sort of situation that the EU rules on FoM are designed for, if implemented correctly. Three months work, have private health insurance, leave if there is no work afterwards.

[WTFH]

So, exactly like we are able to do now under EU rules that the UK haven’t implemented.

But you forget, that in JRM/BoJo's minds, and their mindless followers, if the UK hasn't implemented an EU rule, it's the EU's fault. And most of the time these people seem to believe that the EU has rules in place that are the opposite of the actual rules, because then the EU can be blamed further.

Europeans claiming benefits the minute they set foot in the UK? Not an EU rule
Europeans getting free treatment on the NHS? Not an EU rule
Europeans simultaneously taking all the jobs and claiming unemployment benefit? Not an EU rule
WTO tariffs on imports? Not an EU rule
UK Border Force spending cuts? Not an EU rule

[meridian]

In general, arguments seem to confuse free movement with immigration generally. There are no laws in the UK, the EU or any other democratic nations that ban emigration.

Ending free movement does not stop the UK or any European nation from taking in migrants, the important point is that we are free to take in those we really need, whether it's the highly skilled or seasonal farm workers.

So, exactly like we are able to do now under EU rules that the UK haven’t implemented.

[sasguru]

we expect ....blah blah blah

You thickos can expect all you want, all you're going to get is lowered living standards and poorer services.
Eeveryone knows, post Brexit, taxes are going to rise and/or spending will have to fall, just to keep at the same level.

[darmstadt]

yes strangely enough that was the figure I highlighted as it was what we were talking about but here for the thickies again

However we would like a breakdown of skilled vs. non-skilled migrants. It's irrelevant anyway as skilled EU migrants won't be coming to the UK anyway which was what the whole point was about, not the fact that there are less EU migrants overall (which is both skilled and non-skilled) which in turn shows that there are more non-EU migrants coming to the UK.

[vetran]

How about you and your children fook of to the fields to pick up *berries? Dont worry no EU migrant will want to work for £ when £<€. Highly skilled ones earn more than you anyway and can live with £\€ rate. Got it now?

maybe when the farmers pay a sensible wage so the fruit pickers don't live in squalor then the "lazy" brits would want the job? Or maybe as has happened since 1947 seasonal fruit picking visas will be granted for those rich land owners who are too tight to pay a living wage can still get cheap labour?


No we haven't got it yet, we expect the International companies to pay some tax rather than exploiting slave labour - how about you feckwit?

[vetran]

Does that article give a breakdown of EU vs. non-EU migrants?

So:



More non-EU than EU as has practically always been...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ort/august2018

yes strangely enough that was the figure I highlighted as it was what we were talking about but here for the thickies again

Office for National Statistics released on Monday showed net long-term migration to the UK from the EU was 101,000 in 2017

[pscont]

In general, arguments seem to confuse free movement with immigration generally. There are no laws in the UK, the EU or any other democratic nations that ban emigration.

Ending free movement does not stop the UK or any European nation from taking in migrants, the important point is that we are free to take in those we really need, whether it's the highly skilled or seasonal farm workers.

How about you and your children fook of to the fields to pick up *berries? Dont worry no EU migrant will want to work for £ when £<€. Highly skilled ones earn more than you anyway and can live with £\€ rate. Got it now?

[darmstadt]

yeah its terrible its fallen to its lowest level in four years!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...years-says-ons

A mere 101,000 arriving here every year!

shocking the highly skilled migrant program is massively under over subscribed how can we do that with shotgun pellets in our foot??

https://www.ft.com/content/914b10e2-...9-7680cedcc421

Does that article give a breakdown of EU vs. non-EU migrants?

So:

“Today’s figures show that around 270,000 more people are coming to the UK than leaving, so net migration is continuing to add to the UK population. Net migration has been broadly stable since peak levels seen in 2015 and 2016.

“Looking at the underlying numbers we can see that EU net migration has fallen, as fewer EU citizens are arriving in the UK, and has now returned to the level last seen in 2012.

“Much of the recent fall is in people from the western European countries that make up the 'EU15' group coming to the UK for a definite job. Previously we had seen a decline in the number of EU citizens coming who were looking for work, however, this seems to have stabilised.”

Nicola Rogers, Centre for Migration, Office for National Statistics.

More non-EU than EU as has practically always been...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ort/august2018

[vetran]

The problem with that argument is that those migrants that the UK would like to attract are intelligent enough to realise that going to a country that has just shot itself in the foot is not exactly a good idea. These people can now earn a good wage and have a better standard of living now by staying in their own country or moving to one that allows for freedom of movement. I see more reports of people leaving the UK than wanting to either move there or stay. The only migrants that the UK will be able to get in the not too distant future are those from outside of the EU and those countries will be wanting pretty damn good reciprocal agreements.

yeah its terrible its fallen to its lowest level in four years!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...years-says-ons

A mere 101,000 arriving here every year!

shocking the highly skilled migrant program is massively under over subscribed how can we do that with shotgun pellets in our foot??

https://www.ft.com/content/914b10e2-...9-7680cedcc421

A UK government move that allowed companies to bring more skilled foreign workers into the country has already been overtaken by demand just a month after it was introduced.

[darmstadt]

Ending free movement does not stop the UK or any European nation from taking in migrants, the important point is that we are free to take in those we really need, whether it's the highly skilled or seasonal farm workers.

The problem with that argument is that those migrants that the UK would like to attract are intelligent enough to realise that going to a country that has just shot itself in the foot is not exactly a good idea. These people can now earn a good wage and have a better standard of living now by staying in their own country or moving to one that allows for freedom of movement. I see more reports of people leaving the UK than wanting to either move there or stay. The only migrants that the UK will be able to get in the not too distant future are those from outside of the EU and those countries will be wanting pretty damn good reciprocal agreements.

[BlasterBates]

The Chequers deal might end freedom of movement but includes a "mobility framework", i.e. if you can get a job you're in.



With freedom of movement you can actually throw people out who don't have a job, so it is effectively freedom of movement in all but name.

[xoggoth]

In general, arguments seem to confuse free movement with immigration generally. There are no laws in the UK, the EU or any other democratic nations that ban emigration.

Ending free movement does not stop the UK or any European nation from taking in migrants, the important point is that we are free to take in those we really need, whether it's the highly skilled or seasonal farm workers.

[xoggoth]

Again lots of brexiteer bulltulip. In the region were I live there are many very highly educated EU citizen working in all sorts of scientific research institutions of Many have announced they are leaving after Brexit and I know of many who have already left.
Like me, many EU immigrants send their children to private schools and have private health insurance as both public education and healthservice in this country is amongst the worst in the EU. So we pay the tax for education and health but we're actually not using it.

Pretty typical pro EU opinion, based on personal experience rather than any verified statistics. Of course if you are highly educated in a skilled job, living in a decent area, most of the people you know will be of similar nature, that is obvious. Most in a job requiring a degree do not mix a lot with people who wash cars! Your "argument" might carry more weight if you had any actual percentage for these highly educated EU citizens.

Certainly I, and most "right wingers", have no problem with high performing migrants like yourself, they are a real benefit. You are welcome. Unfortunately, you are not representative of the whole, as the statistics I quoted indicate. Sure, most will be hard working decent people but they work in relatively low grade employment - as shop assistants, in cafes, data processors for marketing companies etc. The UK is a low productivity nation compared to Germany in large part because we have a higher proportion of these type of jobs. It is not the future we should be pursuing.