Reply to: Freedom of Movement to be replaced by

[vetran]

I think he stays off here when he gets home as he's embarrassed to tell his Mom, partner, dog, that he voted leave and he doesn't want them seeing him on here posting his leaver dribble.

maybe he has a life? During the weekend he is shagging yer mum & sister!

[meridian]

Freedom of Movement to be replaced by

Point is the British aren't unreasonable in not having ID cards, the issue is not being allowed to link people's data on different government databases.

Respectfully, I disagree that that is the point - the point is that the British may or may not be unreasonable in not having a single ID card system, but any show of unreasonableness against having ID cards is baseless, because they already have them (albeit in different forms with different names).

Take renting a property. Under U.K. law, a person must show proof of entitlement to the right to rent a property in England. That applies to any resident, including British citizens, and must be verified by one or more ID documents. The list is here (section 5.2):

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-february-2016

Don’t want an ID card? That’s fine, they’re not mandatory. But you cannot then expect to be able to rent a property without one (an ID card in a different form with a different name, but for all intents and purposes a proof of ID being used as a proof of entitlement to rent).

[SueEllen]

I've worked in a European country without a mandatory photographic ID card or even a mandatory ID card in the past.

Instead you registered at a population office and given an ID number on a piece of paper. You then used this ID number on a piece of paper plus your passport to open a bank account. The ID number was then printed on your bank card with your mugshot and you them used your bank card as ID.

If you were one of the few people who didn't have a bank account, passport and/or driving licence - which were all linked to your population ID - then you could buy a photographic ID card.

Point is the British aren't unreasonable in not having ID cards, the issue is not being allowed to link people's data on different government databases.

[Whorty]

I think he stays off here when he gets home as he's embarrassed to tell his Mom, partner, dog, that he voted leave and he doesn't want them seeing him on here posting his leaver dribble.

[WTFH]

Trainee PFY...

No.
PFY has his uses.

I’m thinking trainee junior HR management

[darmstadt]

Chaps, no point arguing with Bean past 5 o'clock as he won't be around again now until Monday morning at 9 o'clock. Love to know what he does for a job that he is only allowed on this forum during normal work hours.

Trainee PFY...

[Whorty]

And again, separately, because you seem to be having trouble comprehending this.

Nobody is saying that the U.K. has a mandatory ID card system.



By Jove, I think he’s finally got it. Almost.

There are also many forms of photo (or not) ID that are required to be seen by third parties, whether people wish to have them or not, if those people want to partake in particular goods or services.

Chaps, no point arguing with Bean past 5 o'clock as he won't be around again now until Monday morning at 9 o'clock. Love to know what he does for a job that he is only allowed on this forum during normal work hours.

[meridian]

Suffice to say, nope - the UK doesn't have a (mandatory) 'ID card system',

And again, separately, because you seem to be having trouble comprehending this.

Nobody is saying that the U.K. has a mandatory ID card system.

although there are forms of photo ID available, if people wish to have them.

By Jove, I think he’s finally got it. Almost.

There are also many forms of photo (or not) ID that are required to be seen by third parties, whether people wish to have them or not, if those people want to partake in particular goods or services.

[NotAllThere]

... the UK doesn't have a (mandatory) 'ID card system', ...

No one denies that. The point is that life in the UK if you don't have ID is more complex than if you do.

[meridian]

ID card systems are mandatory, or the 'ID card system' doesn't work.
Passports & driving licenses are not mandatory, therefore cannot be used as an 'ID card', for the purposes of an ID card system.
National Insurance cards are NOT a form of ID, precisely because they lack a photo.

You may be able to say something along the lines of, 'people who apply for passports & licenses tolerate a form of ID card' - but we do not have an ID card system in the UK.

HTH BIDI.

Wrong again. ID card “systems” are not mandatory.

However, if you want to be a functioning member of society you need to be able to prove your entitlement to certain things.

Look under 25 and want to purchase age-restricted material (cigarettes, alcohol, get into a club, etc)? Better have photo ID.

Stopped by the police? Better be able to prove who you are, by whatever means.

Want to rent a flat? You’ll need to prove that you are legally resident in the U.K.

Want to drive or hire a car? You’ll need a licence.

Etc.

You’ve interpreted having an ID card as being a one-card system, but it doesn’t need to be that way. It also doesn’t mean that any cards are mandatory - people can surely live life without them, but for many things in life you either need an ID card of some form or you miss out.

[darmstadt]

Although if you want to drink in a lot of pubs, visit clubs and so on and look young (although their oldest 'customer' is 97) then there is this:

https://validateuk.co.uk/

Not official government but accepted...

[Bean]

FTFY. HTH. BIFDI.

Bank account without photo ID;
https://www.nationwide.co.uk/support...identification
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.u...a-bank-account

marriage without photo ID;
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/births-d...il-partnership

mortgage without photo ID;
https://www.thetipton.co.uk/our-mort...dentification/
https://www.nationwide.co.uk/support...-your-identity

If you're going to try & ftfy a post - at least get it right NAT.

Suffice to say, nope - the UK doesn't have a (mandatory) 'ID card system', although there are forms of photo ID available, if people wish to have them.

[NotAllThere]

...'people who apply for passports & licenses, open bank accounts, contract through agencies, hire cars, rent homes, rent offices, apply for mortgages, get married... tolerate a form of ID card' - but we do not have an ID card system in the UK.

FTFY. HTH. BIFDI.

[Bean]

Of course, but whether they are mandatory or not, or have your picture on or not, was not the discussion. They are ID cards, which was the response to the statement that “we won’t tolerate ID cards”. You do.

ID card systems are mandatory, or the 'ID card system' doesn't work.
Passports & driving licenses are not mandatory, therefore cannot be used as an 'ID card', for the purposes of an ID card system.
National Insurance cards are NOT a form of ID, precisely because they lack a photo.

You may be able to say something along the lines of, 'people who apply for passports & licenses tolerate a form of ID card' - but we do not have an ID card system in the UK.

HTH BIDI.

[WTFH]

That's what we already have. We just can't (or won't) enforce it.

Nailed it (of course they ignored that bit to run off in a frenzy about ID cards)

Home Secretaries for years could have enforced it, like they do in many EU countries, but chose the easy way out of not enforcing it, then making sure that their sheep think it's because of the EU that they can't.