Reply to: Help Needed - Invoice Non Payment

[NotAllThere]

Do be careful what the Agency write as their conditions, and if they muck about _any_ further, accept no further "offers" - go legal.

[ITSecurityContractor]

Resolution

I saw a solicitor who said I had a very good case, but they advised me to take the offer of 75% just to save the hassle. Could quite easily go the legal route, but could have drawn it out for ages. So just cutting my losses and learning a big lesson. Hope this may help any other people out too.

Solicitor did say only take the offer only on the following conditions:
- By taking the offer, I accept no responsibility
- The agency must supply and indemnity against any further action by any party on the issue.
- Agency must pay within 7 days.

If offer had remained at 50% then I would have definitely taken legal action

[Boo]

Did you opt in or opt out?

This is not relevant because the client has already authorised the agency to pay the work. It is a simple decision by the client not to pay and you do have recourse in law. You need to look up the actual procedure but basically you send a final demand letter saying the agency have 2 weeks to pay or you will pursue legal action. If they don't pay then one of the online solicitors will commence proceeding for next to no cost. Or you can do it yourself.

Google around for yourself but Thomas Higgins have a reasonable presence in that market and their website shows the procedure (I've never used them myself).

Do not do anything stupid like agreeing to forego your time based fees so long as they pay your expenses. They should not be allowed to get away with not paying your companies bills or they will just do it to everyone else they think they can get away with skinning.


Good luck,

Boo

[strawberrysmoothie]

I had a similar situation last year where I wasn't paid by the agency even though I had a signed time-sheet and I got the same tulip from the agency about 'if we don't get paid by the client...you don't get paid'. I was considering either legal action or hiring a debt collection agency to recover my money. Luckily I was eventually paid.

So I wish you the best of luck and that you sort this out.

[ITSecurityContractor]

Further Update

Thanks to everyone for their views, all welcomed and has been useful.

I did opt out, but can't prove I was forced to, so don't want to go down that route.


Now been offered a further deal, 50% by the consultancy and an additional 25% by the agency only. 75% + expenses in total.

Now got the solicitors involved, at moment just to get a grip on my options, seeing them later.

Originally the clients fault but, nothing I can or want to do anything about. Not worth wasting my time.


Still very miffed the Consultancy is blaming me for their proven own internal mistakes. Their client is not paying them, rightly so! but that’s nothing to do with me, why should I be penalised. Anyone suggest what I can do about consultancy? They shouldn’t be able to get away with it. Less experienced people might have taken 50% for no reason. Glad I held out now.

[Platypus]

I noticed that the OP said he was forced to opt out. If there's evidence for that, doesn't that make the opt out illegal, in which case he's opted in by default? In which case the agency don't have a leg to stand on.

[NotAllThere]

Thanks for you info, its great help.

I didn't have a choice of opting in or out by the agency. It was either opt out or not get the contract.

If you've got proof of that, you can also raise a complaint with REC, I believe.

Anyway. This is what I would do, based on what I did when I didn't get paid. Really avoid solicitor costs as much as possible.

1. Reject the 50% on the grounds that you have fullfilled your part of the contract.
2. Keep re-iterating your position. stating this is a legal debt, but don't get into an argument.
3. Issue an invoice for the full amount
4. When that's not paid by the due date, re-issue the invoice with 7 days to pay, adding the payontime admin charge and interest, offering to discuss if they have difficulty paying. (But not for any other reason).
5. When that's not paid, re-issue the invoice with another 7 days to pay - keep adding on interest.
6. When that's not paid, get the names and addresses of the directors of the agency, re-issue the invoice, payable immediately or legal action will be take, and send a copy of the letter and invoice, personal to the directors.
7. When that's not paid, go through the small claims court to recover the debt.

When I went through this, I got paid at step 6. They didn't pay the admin charge or interest, but that wasn't the goal.

[Wanderer]

Had enough, seeing a solicitor tomorrow, so further updates then.

Had and intresting conversation with a solicitor which I didn't know. If the agency puts something like "if we don't get paid, you dont", or similar to that affect, its not legal and can't be enforced.

The solicitor is talking about the Agency Conduct Regulations. Did you sign an opt out or not? If you did then you are signing away your rights. If the opt out was not done before you were introduced to the client then it's probably not valid.

If it comes to the small claims court then you cannot recover your solicitors costs so be careful that you are not wasting your money talking to a solicitor for further advice. The solicitor has already agreed that you have a strong case which is all you need to know. Just get a solicitor (any solicitor) to send the letter before action which should cost about a fiver and will put the frighteners on the agency.

You can then start a claim yourself though moneyclaim if they refuse to pay up and only get a solicitor involved if it comes to court.

[BlasterBates]

Tricky one definitely worth the soliciters letter, take it down the normal route of getting the invoice paid. Should land up in the small claims court. They may dispute it, if they do take your chances and spend a day in court laying out your case, then a judge will decide.

But in the end it's 2 grand your disputing so you don't want to spend more then a 300 or 400, so don't overdo it with the soliciter. Maybe just his advice and possibly a letter.

You should mainly be relying on the threat of taking this claim to court to get it paid.

[eek]

Their reason now is as they aren’t getting paid they wont pay me.

If you have opted in and are not direct with the consultancy the agency has to pay. Don't waste money with a solicitor just send follow the advice at http://payontime.co.uk

[oracleslave]

Had and intresting conversation with a solicitor which I didn't know. If the agency puts something like "if we don't get paid, you dont", or similar to that affect, its not legal and can't be enforced.

This is probably one of the reasons why NLUK asked you your opt in/out status. Sounds to me like you could do with reading the info on this site further in this regards.

Good luck with the solicitor meet although it sounds early and expensive in the process to be going down this route? Have you followed the other suggestions regarding payontime etc?

[ITSecurityContractor]

Quick Update


Found an email with undisputable direct evidence the consultancy knew about my approach, it even states the consultancy was going to take responsibility to speak to their client on day 1 of 4. Client complained day 4.

Even with the evidence and directly catching the consultancy out making false statements, they are still refusing to pay. Their reason now is as they aren’t getting paid they wont pay me.


Had enough, seeing a solicitor tomorrow, so further updates then.

Had and intresting conversation with a solicitor which I didn't know. If the agency puts something like "if we don't get paid, you dont", or similar to that affect, its not legal and can't be enforced.

[cojak]

Sadly, people already know.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...ml#post1506420

i just read another article about a designer because he only had a purchase order and no contract, client offered 50% of original and that was it, he seemed to have no legal standpoint

But I wouldn't just accept this without legal advice. Are you a member of the PCG? If you are call their tax and legal adviceline.

I wouldn't just give £k's because they're being stroppy without asking someone who's seen your situation in detail - they need to learn a lesson on this as well.
This is the most valuable lesson you can learn though

Less than happy with the outcome but will put it down as experience and learn from it and anyone else would be good to also, make sure you get everything in writing and don't just trust want the client says verbally.

In the end business is business, not a time for being nice and hoping people will like you if you accept their flannel.

[ITSecurityContractor]

Thanks @SueEllen I'm beginning to think you are correct but little I can do about it. Thanks also to everyone for providing advice. They have offered me half, so looking to taking it. Its my word against there’s so unless any new evidence comes up, I don't think I have anything else to use.

I would have thought authorised timesheets would have been enough but there is a clause in the agencies contract, if they don't get paid, I don’t.

Less than happy with the outcome but will put it down as experience and learn from it and anyone else would be good to also, make sure you get everything in writing and don't just trust want the client says verbally.

[SueEllen]

ItSecurityContractor being cynical in this it looks like the consultancy were using you and the agency because they knew their client was very difficult i.e. you were set up to fail.

The only way you will get your money out of the agency is by taking them to court.

If you have evidence, particularly in document form including emails, of the client being difficult so preventing you doing the work then don't hesitate to take the steps Wanderer suggested.

It probably won't go to court when the agency directors realise they are going to lose. As if they do lose there is nothing stopping you reporting the full story to everyone.