Reply to: Foul and abusive language by project manager at client

[NotAllThere]

If you were a permie, you could quit and then sue for constructive dismissal. I.e. you were forced to resign because management did nothing to prevent harassment. As a contractor, you can quit.

[northernladuk]

even though it breached their own code of conduct on the use of foul language.

Sorry but this doesn't sit with me. It sounds like bedwetting to me. Can't go running to the code of conduct everytime someone swears I am afraid.

[MarillionFan]

I'd have a quiet word in the PM's shell like, see how that goes. If they get all arsey, then threaten them with a bloody good hiding.

Normally does the ticket.

[AussieDigger]

What he exactly did he shout/sweat at you if it was HIS fault?

Frankly, I'd have laughed in his face if the issue was not my fault.

Any chance you can give us some context into exactly what he said? Chances of them ever finding it here are slim, but if you are worried PM or obfuscate it enough to give us the jist.

The PM instructed me to do specific tasks which I duly did and then failed to communicate that he'd also agreed it with others in the business to do those same tasks elsewhere. So when I was told by people in the business do to attend a meeting for them to discuss x, y and z, I informed them I'd already done those tasks as instructed by the PM and that they should speak to him. He went off his rocker and hauled me into a room and slammed the door and then hurled abuses at me like I'd made him look like a right c*** and p***k and all that - way out of line. Left me visibly shaken. I walked offsite to seek advice from the agency who then had to step in and sort the guy out as he was panicking like hell that I was going to tear up the contract and sue. But he was a contractor and 2 weeks prior the programme manager (his boss) had been marched by the client for the same reason.

Long story short I took it up with the marshy client hr manager and they didn't give a toss, even though it breached their own code of conduct on the use of foul language.

So from my point of view, I'm wanting to suss out whether that failure to act caused them to breach their contract in any way or any rights I might have under workplace regs or human rights or anything of the above. But above all whether there are contract issues in play here because its a massive conflict of interest for a contract PM to behave this way and still have hiring and firing authority. I've no doubt because I complained to the agency and then the client HR that my contract didn't get renewed.

An impossible situation really. Bit sick of being treated like crap.

Oh and the PM actually told me to take a tough line with the business to turn the project around and ensure the right things were getting done. Seems this PM was a bit precious and hypocritical in his conduct to protect his own *****

[keninparis]

"Foul and abusive language by project manager at client"

A quiet 'word' IMO, usually does the trick.

[SueEllen]

I think I use the c word quite easily...my first language is not English, so I find it quite amusing how shocked people seem when I use it. However, I understand it's a very strong swear word so I wouldn't use it at work/let anyone refer to me using it.

If you have a Spanish accent you will get away with it.

Though you will probably get someone like me taking you to the side and explaining not to use that language as you could do it in front of senior company management.

I use Spanish when I need to swear in the office, colleagues think it's funny.

Be careful of that - people who you don't think will understand you. It's a problem of being in London.

It's very amusing to catch people saying naughty words/naughty things in a random foreign language and them not realising that you understand completely.

[xoggoth]

I use Spanish when I need to swear in the office

What like Arriba, Arriba, Andalay, Andalay?

[jmo21]

What he exactly did he shout/sweat at you if it was HIS fault?

Frankly, I'd have laughed in his face if the issue was not my fault.

Any chance you can give us some context into exactly what he said? Chances of them ever finding it here are slim, but if you are worried PM or obfuscate it enough to give us the jist.

[BolshieBastard]

Have a word with the permie manager and say you behave professionally at all times when under pressure etc and expect others to do the same. I'd say dont go toe to toe with the offending person as it is just not professional imo.

I had a situation at my last client where one of the snot nose developers thought he was ace. Client side had asked me if some minor changes could be made to some work on a system he'd had a hand in developing. Next minute he's firing obnoxious email's off to everyone about my request and copying me in.

I was all for offerring him out but mentioned it to the permie manager instead. Apparently the developer dick had done this trick once too often so was taken down a peg or two and told if he acted unprofessionally again regarding client initiated requests he'd be walked off site.

The permie manager actually thanked me later for acting professionally by bringing it to his attention and not 'sorting it out' by other means.

[petergriffin]

the c word was used. hence the question of what to do.

I wouldn't let anybody call me a Conservative!

[psychocandy]

People having an opinion of me - If someone thinks I am a dog sh**ing f*****g w*****r then that is their opinion. I can live with that. I am not everyones cup of tea

I like you NLUK! ;-)

[carlosLondon]

I would write it off this time as you missed your opportunity to act IMO.

Next time it is just leave. You show of morality will shame a bully more than going to managers in most cases.

We don't know the exact situation and because of this and it is a one off I would not suggest going to a permie manager. One thing they probably hate more than foul mouthed contractors is moaning contractors that have got small kahunas. Remember you put your manager in a situation where he has to take the other guy to task and won't relish it. Could paint you in a much worse light.

The get out in this is that you said it happened once. Mentally log it and prepare your actions if it happens again. Trying to do something about it now might be too late and counter productive.

I dont' know all the facts but that is my take.

I think I use the c word quite easily...my first language is not English, so I find it quite amusing how shocked people seem when I use it. However, I understand it's a very strong swear word so I wouldn't use it at work/let anyone refer to me using it. I use Spanish when I need to swear in the office, colleagues think it's funny.

[northernladuk]

the c word was used. hence the question of what to do.

I would write it off this time as you missed your opportunity to act IMO.

Next time it is just leave. You show of morality will shame a bully more than going to managers in most cases.

We don't know the exact situation and because of this and it is a one off I would not suggest going to a permie manager. One thing they probably hate more than foul mouthed contractors is moaning contractors that have got small kahunas. Remember you put your manager in a situation where he has to take the other guy to task and won't relish it. Could paint you in a much worse light.

The get out in this is that you said it happened once. Mentally log it and prepare your actions if it happens again. Trying to do something about it now might be too late and counter productive.

I dont' know all the facts but that is my take.

[AussieDigger]

On a serious note... My take on it is to think about the situation and what levels you can deal with. Some people swear and are arrogant <cough>, it is unprofessional and there is rarely a call for it but the bottom line is it happens and we are not children.

The question you have to ask yourself is what is your limit? I will tell you where I draw the line, the rest is up to you...

The C word - You don't use the C word at work, particularly in front of women... ever!! If someone drops the C bomb I walk out. I have done a few times and still will. No need for that at all.

A screaming argument where we are all shouting and effing and jeffing about work issues etc - It happens, can get a bit ugly but occasionally I don't have a problem.

I cockup and get a bollocking from someoene that swears - I can take it if I am due it. Water off a ducks back.

People having an opinion of me - If someone thinks I am a dog sh**ing f*****g w*****r then that is their opinion. I can live with that. I am not everyones cup of tea

Heavy, unjustified personal abuse - I stand up, advise the person doing it that this is not professional and I will talk when he has calmed down and then leave the room. This normally shames the person so badly it never happens again.

I have never felt the need to report anyone for their actions yet. If they do this alot they will get in to more than enough trouble themselves so just let them reap what they sew.

Hope that helps.

the c word was used. hence the question of what to do.

[cojak]

Recently had an experience where I was verbally abused by the project manager for a mistake that he created - was at a big financial services client of the swampy variety. Not sure what to do about it and whether to complain to the client (as he is a contractor) as their code of conduct says abusive language isn't tolerated.

Can I take any separate action against the Project Manager themselves, like report it to the police as an assault ?

I would report it to their permie manager more in sorrow than in
anger, pointing out that it's not very professional of the guy and allude to the fact that he's not coping terribly well with the pressure and is there anything that you can do to help?

Revenge takes many forms.

Oh, and don't bother applying for any IB contracts, you wouldn't last the day...

(added the bold as you forgot you weren't just asking contract-wise...)