Reply to: Advice from Accountants needed

[WTFH]

won't be surprised if I am banned - for challenging the questionable behaviour on this site; after all this is a site that equates a question about ACCOUNTANCY - as trolling!
…
By the way: Banning people who call out bad behaviour - appropriately so -
whilst allowing those who behave badly to continue to do so - reflects poorly on the CUK site moderators.

Why are you so obsessed with being banned?
Has this happened to one of your other names on here?
You are playing the victim card by saying that if we ban you it reflects badly on us.

Let’s get this right - you asked a question about accountancy. You were given multiple polite answers that you rejected.
You were asked simple questions, which you describe as “intrusive”, if you’d asked your accountant, or people like us who have experience of running professional businesses, they would have asked you the same questions.

The answers you were given did not justify your tone, attitude and responses.

I’m closing this thread, because the OP needs to calm down.

[jamesbrown]

This isn’t the first time we’ve seen a head explosion in one the professional subforums when a noobie poster fails to receive the expected validation of their ridiculous question or scheme. Bear in mind that “do your research” is also part of the T&Cs of this subforum and the most cursory research would’ve revealed that the answer to your question is simultaneously “yes” and “an idea completely without merit”. The subsequent lack of any rational probably led most posters to believe you were up to no good but, evidently, the explanation is a bit simpler than that.

[Tinkerbell3]

won't be surprised if I am banned - for challenging the questionable behaviour on this site; after all this is a site that equates a question about ACCOUNTANCY - as trolling!

I posted an Accountancy question to the Accounting professional SUB forum.
Some Accountants replied. I THANKED them - see Post #17 pg 2.
Most of the other posts were inappropriate/ disrespectful: long RAMBLING dubious "advice"; intrusive/ flippant/ rude responses etc. Even loneliness and boredom cannot excuse loutish/ thuggish behaviour.
People posting here are supposed to be professionals - not village idiots and half wits ...

The question I asked did NOT justify inappropriate/ disrespectful posts. It reflects poorly on the posters - and also on the CUK site itself. Basic human DECENCY alone suggests respectful responses on a professional sub forum.

The CUK terms and conditions for forum use - https://www.contractoruk.com/about/bulletin_board.html provide guidelines:
CUK : The professional areas include Accounting/ Legal.
Forum members are expected to be POLITE; constructive; stay on topic and give thoughtful, useful advice.
ME: Long, ranting posts with condescending 'advice' - is IGNORANT - not thoughtful and useful.

By the way: Banning people who call out bad behaviour - appropriately so -
whilst allowing those who behave badly to continue to do so - reflects poorly on the CUK site moderators.

[malvolio]

So to quote Sir Humphrey, "If you have to do this bloody silly thing, don't do it in this bloody silly way".

[jamesbrown]

If you want to ask questions of accountants, ask on AccountingWeb.co.uk

It's highly likely, however, that some will also ask "why" and others can be quite snarky too.

Yes, I would expect at least the same level of snark from accounting web . The accountants here are likely thinking the same snarky things, but mostly have the good business sense to curb their enthusiasm because... hands/feeding/biting etc. .

If you ask a question that sounds ignorant of the basics of operating a small business or potentially looking to do something dodgy (following a sequence of posts that provide no clarification whatsoever), you can expect maximum snark and disbelief.

Had the OP provided even the semblance of an explanation about why they wanted to do this seemingly very silly thing, the level of suspicion wouldn't have been so acute.

[ladymuck]

If you want to ask questions of accountants, ask on AccountingWeb.co.uk

It's highly likely, however, that some will also ask "why" and others can be quite snarky too.

[sadkingbilly]

someone's upset then.
oh, deary me.

[cojak]

This isn’t an ACCOUNTANT’S forum, it’s a CONTRACTOR’S forum. And the accountants here have answered your question - thank you Craig, Chris Maslin (and I suspect Greg).

So have the good grace to at least thank them yourself rather than berate the contractors (who are amazingly, not banned from the accounts section of this forum).

This was a simple question - "Is there any reason why I cannot have more than 1 accountant? " - posed to the ACCOUNTANTS on this forum.

The APPROPRIATE responses - from accountants - would have been:
No - but xyz ...
Yes - because xyz ...

From non accountants:
I have this/ have tried this and xyz ...

For some reason, too many of the responses have been inappropriate. .
To those people:

Just because you don't agree with or understand something doesn't negate the need to respond appropriately and RESPECTFULLY.
There is no need to force your views or opinions on others.
There is no need to question people in a manner that borders on intrusive.
There is no need to belittle/ 'point the finger' at others just to make yourselves look good in the eyes of others. Only 'small' people behave like this in an attempt to look bigger/ shinier than they are.

Making flippant/ offhand comments, throwing insults, calling people names, suggesting/ assuming people who ask questions are clueless - is disrespectful and a bit ignorant.
THIS is trolling - yet some people had the nerve to suggest "I" was a troll! A TROLL: for. asking. an. accountancy. question?!
Trolling is when someone posts something with the intention to insult or offend another.

This was an Accountancy question - posted in the Accounts professional sub-forum.
We are not in a pub indulging in general chit-chat.
We are not at a Donald Trump rally trading insults.
Answer the actual question appropriately and respectfully - or maybe: just. don't. respond.

[Tinkerbell3]

I am a Ltd company contractor currently rethinking my accountancy requirements.

I know it isn't normal practice - but is there any reason why I cannot have more than 1 accountant - e.g. one for Annual Accounts + Corporation tax, and another for PAYE?

This was a simple question - "Is there any reason why I cannot have more than 1 accountant? " - posed to the ACCOUNTANTS on this forum.

The APPROPRIATE responses - from accountants - would have been:
No - but xyz ...
Yes - because xyz ...

From non accountants:
I have this/ have tried this and xyz ...

For some reason, too many of the responses have been inappropriate. .
To those people:

Just because you don't agree with or understand something doesn't negate the need to respond appropriately and RESPECTFULLY.
There is no need to force your views or opinions on others.
There is no need to question people in a manner that borders on intrusive.
There is no need to belittle/ 'point the finger' at others just to make yourselves look good in the eyes of others. Only 'small' people behave like this in an attempt to look bigger/ shinier than they are.

Making flippant/ offhand comments, throwing insults, calling people names, suggesting/ assuming people who ask questions are clueless - is disrespectful and a bit ignorant.
THIS is trolling - yet some people had the nerve to suggest "I" was a troll! A TROLL: for. asking. an. accountancy. question?!
Trolling is when someone posts something with the intention to insult or offend another.

This was an Accountancy question - posted in the Accounts professional sub-forum.
We are not in a pub indulging in general chit-chat.
We are not at a Donald Trump rally trading insults.
Answer the actual question appropriately and respectfully - or maybe: just. don't. respond.

[jamesbrown]

My understanding was that corporation tax and PAYE are separate tax groups - so no real reason why they can't be dealt with separately.
However I wanted to get a feel for what accountants thought.

I mean, if you wanted to create a completely convoluted and unnecessary administrative burden, sure they are all "separate" to some degree. Each quarterly VAT return is a separate return, so you could get a separate accountant to check and file each one for you . The CT600 and accounts filed with HMRC and CH reflect the overall state of the company at the end of the FY (income statement, balance sheet etc.), so they'd better be accurate. Obviously (at least it should be obvious), it makes no sense to have a team of accountants dealing with the accounts of a micro-entity and you don't need to worry about running a larger entity until you have a larger entity to run, which BTW will require a turnover > ~£600k or > 10 employees or a balance sheet > ~£300k (two of three).

Methinks you are a little too thin-skinned for even the professional forums where you'll generally get polite but entirely realistic advice that reflects the level of coherence of the questions asked. But I do agree with others that, if you're not a troll, you probably have a lot of thinking and learning to do.

[malvolio]

We don't mean to be rude (OK, I tend to be... ) but perhaps if you had answered the questions trying to ascertain why you are asking what you are trying to do, we might have come up with something more constructive.

Anyone asking a seemingly silly question (it may not be one, clearly) really ought to expect people clarifying why before they offer any kind of sensible answer.

It's not rudeness, it's busy people trying to help...

[northernladuk]

Thanks to the accountants that have replied.

My understanding was that corporation tax and PAYE are separate tax groups - so no real reason why they can't be dealt with separately.
However I wanted to get a feel for what accountants thought.

I'm not sure why some of the responses have been so suspicious or combative - some downright rude.

It was just a question. I am not doing or planning to do anything wrong.
At some point I hope to grow my business beyond a micro company so thinking about accountancy services to support that.

Accountancy, bookkeeping, tax advice etc. are separate services.
Some people choose to have these as a single combined service - other people choose otherwise.
Different choices suit different people/ businesses.

People really should respond respectfully - even when they don't understand or agree with others' choices.

I don't want to be rude but reading this just makes me think you don't understand accounting or the tools that are available. Have you got an accountant already? Are you already contracting or is this your first dip? A chat with an accountant about what they do and how complex it is should have answered all this. For a start FreeAgent does nearly everything. All you need is an accountant to keep an eye on issues and then just carry out timed activities like quarterly VAT and yearly CT and in most cases it's a review of the data and press a button. I'm thinking you don't know how they do it or how much time it takes.

We pay sub 2k for accountancy services a year. With an account billing at what, say 100 quid an hour (which is probably a very low assumption) you are getting well under 20 hours effort from them for the whole lot. That's around an hour a month effort... and you want to split that in to two?

As you can see from the responses generally people do NOT have them as separate services. Accounting is the service, all the things you are mentioned are just tasks within that service. Even medium sized business with many employees etc only have one accountant. Ours can be run by FA by yourself if you've got some nouse. I'd be interested to know where you have found the 'some people' that have separate services as I've never seen it in 20 years of contracting and the accountants that have responded have never seen it either.

I think you don't fully understand how contracting accounting works or the tools used to carry it out so have come up with an idea to fix a incorrect situation as I mentioned in one of my other posts.

If you already have an accountant I'd get a meeting with them for a high level view of what they do and what FA does for them. If you don't then I'd think about engaging a small accountancy service that has the time to sit with you and give you an overview and work with you at each step of the first year so you get a clear understanding.

I do believe you are coming up with ideas to try fix a situation you've got fundamentally wrong so need to investigate the basics and see how that fits your needs (which it will) before going down very complex and strange paths like this.

And just like anything in life, dealing with two people instead of one is always going to be more complex and will probably be more hassle that you think it serves. Try keep services/people to a minimum before adding complexity where it is not needed. One accountant, knows your business, knows you personally, understands the whole picture and away you go. Two people dipping in, not caring, being blinkered to the bigger picture is just a recipe for disaster.

All meant as straight advice on an internet forum and not being rude even though it probably comes across like it.

[Tinkerbell3]

Thanks to the accountants that have replied.

My understanding was that corporation tax and PAYE are separate tax groups - so no real reason why they can't be dealt with separately.
However I wanted to get a feel for what accountants thought.

I'm not sure why some of the responses have been so suspicious or combative - some downright rude.

It was just a question. I am not doing or planning to do anything wrong.
At some point I hope to grow my business beyond a micro company so thinking about accountancy services to support that.

Accountancy, bookkeeping, tax advice etc. are separate services.
Some people choose to have these as a single combined service - other people choose otherwise.
Different choices suit different people/ businesses.

People really should respond respectfully - even when they don't understand or agree with others' choices.

[gregNoWorries]

No problem running two accountants. Just make sure your Payroll data finds its way in your Accounts data at the end of the year. For sure its an odd arrangement but still workable.

[escapeUK]

Maybe they've gone to a small accountancy practice with two people. They want the clever one to do the hard stuff and the tea boy to do the rest?

If it's not that then I don't think we are ever going to find out.

Their partner is one accountant and their child the other one. Hence both needing salary 1257L and reducing corporation tax. I love a tax efficient idea!

oh yes.
refreshing to see someone who likes wasting hard earned cash.

Look at any part of the government.