Reply to: B2C Debt recovery steps

[Lance]

Ah I see what you are saying. Will be interesting to see how they handle a ticket for a prize and the value of the prize. Will have a look at that. If I was them I'd be arguing the purchase price not the end prize value but lets see what they say

immaterial of the actual value of the original transaction, is the fact that the contract is between the supplier and the CC company. Your contract is with the CC company as a loan (in effect). So even if the CC company might not guarantee the cover, they are involved whether they like it or not as they are a party in the transaction.

Plus, I have noticed that disputes via CC companies result very will in your favour as a lot of companies (and in this case the administration) don't want to have fight with CC company lawyers. If you're the only victim in the 'Ponzi' with a CC company fighting your corner, you're more likely to get paid out IMO.

[Andy2022]

Update : Got the 'gone bust sorry but so no thanks' email this morning so that's that.

Toying with the idea of still following this up. They've change names on companies house, not folded the company so I believe their responsibilities stay the same but that could be temporary while they start to wind it down. Not sure why they'd change the name rather than just fold the original company so might be an out for me here.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this as I know about LTD's and half a clue about 'piercing the corporate veil' but wondering if anyone knows anything actually going after the director of the company for the money. Is it really an absolute dead end to the LTD and corporate veil is complex to do or is it possible they may hold the director liable if I go through small claims?

If not I'll just do a chargeback on by credit card if I can be bothered.

If they’ve genuinely gone bust there should be a liquidator appointed and you should be able to register your claim with them (but obviously depends on who else they owe money to and what’s left in the business)

If there’s not one appointed you may be able to force one on them by taking them to small claims and they petitioning for liquidation when they don’t pay

At some point they’ll be a public list of creditors too

I had a client go bust last year and shortly after some legal firm wrote to all the creditor asking if we had evidence that they were trading while insolvent so they could go after the directors on my behalf (of course they wanted a good up front fee and a share of the proceeds)

[northernladuk]

Again I'm not so sure - the item has a value of nearly £5000 (assuming it's not cash). putting £1 on the credit card is enough for it to be covered....

And yes I'm ignoring the ticket price because that part may or may not be relevant here...

Ah I see what you are saying. Will be interesting to see how they handle a ticket for a prize and the value of the prize. Will have a look at that. If I was them I'd be arguing the purchase price not the end prize value but lets see what they say

[eek]

That's interesting. I knew there was some cover from cards but not to the extent of a Section 75 so I'll have a look in to that. It does say, however,


Tickets were only a couple of quid each so it looks like it won't apply.

Good thing to know about in general though thanks.

Again I'm not so sure - the item has a value of nearly £5000 (assuming it's not cash). putting £1 on the credit card is enough for it to be covered....

And yes I'm ignoring the ticket price because that part may or may not be relevant here...

[northernladuk]

Section 75 claim on your credit card - it's unlikely to work but might if the prize wasn't cash..

That's interesting. I knew there was some cover from cards but not to the extent of a Section 75 so I'll have a look in to that. It does say, however,

• There’s some small print on the minimum of £100 spend too. If you bought two items that together cost more than £100, but each cost less than £100, Section 75 would not apply.

Tickets were only a couple of quid each so it looks like it won't apply.

Good thing to know about in general though thanks.

[eek]

Update : Got the 'gone bust sorry but so no thanks' email this morning so that's that.

Toying with the idea of still following this up. They've change names on companies house, not folded the company so I believe their responsibilities stay the same but that could be temporary while they start to wind it down. Not sure why they'd change the name rather than just fold the original company so might be an out for me here.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this as I know about LTD's and half a clue about 'piercing the corporate veil' but wondering if anyone knows anything actually going after the director of the company for the money. Is it really an absolute dead end to the LTD and corporate veil is complex to do or is it possible they may hold the director liable if I go through small claims?

If not I'll just do a chargeback on by credit card if I can be bothered.

Section 75 claim on your credit card - it's unlikely to work but might if the prize wasn't cash..

[northernladuk]

Yes, but...

https://prettys.co.uk/newsletters/ca...ith-him-or-her

Ahh yes. Very similar to piercing the veil. I was hoping there was a much lower threshold to pull the director in. In a case like this they haven't been outright deceitful. You could argue they've been incompetent running more comps with no real prospect of it taking off and putting 90 days T&Cs was never going to work but you could argue it's part of business and quick decline of a failing business.

[northernladuk]

You'd think this would be a regulated activity. Selling tickets; lottery/gambling. Requiring a licence?

Imagine if someone bought quite a lot of tickets, won, but didn't get paid. Surely that should come under some authority oversight? If nothing else, than to bar the individuals running it from doing it again.

Nope. GC only oversees lotteries which need a licence. These comps work as free prize draws. As long as there is either a skill based entry or a free entry route they operate outside the Gambling Commissions rules. They are born out of the comps of old on the back of cornflake packets where you send the voucher in, then turned in to the high rate phone comps with free entry and morphed in to internet ones. The legislation is too far behind and isn't fit for purpose but will change soon.

[ladymuck]

Update : Got the 'gone bust sorry but so no thanks' email this morning so that's that.

Toying with the idea of still following this up. They've change names on companies house, not folded the company so I believe their responsibilities stay the same but that could be temporary while they start to wind it down. Not sure why they'd change the name rather than just fold the original company so might be an out for me here.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this as I know about LTD's and half a clue about 'piercing the corporate veil' but wondering if anyone knows anything actually going after the director of the company for the money. Is it really an absolute dead end to the LTD and corporate veil is complex to do or is it possible they may hold the director liable if I go through small claims?

If not I'll just do a chargeback on by credit card if I can be bothered.

Yes, but...

https://prettys.co.uk/newsletters/ca...ith-him-or-her

[woody1]

You'd think this would be a regulated activity. Selling tickets; lottery/gambling. Requiring a licence?

Imagine if someone bought quite a lot of tickets, won, but didn't get paid. Surely that should come under some authority oversight? If nothing else, than to bar the individuals running it from doing it again.

[northernladuk]

This is quite interesting, if you scroll down to the section "what if I am running a prize promotion"

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online...l#.V_KLClQrK73

You might be able to make a complaint to the ASA (for all the teeth they have) if the T&Cs didn't state when the prize was going to be paid out

Good idea but I've spent a lot of time dealing with ASA and you hit the nail on the head. Absolutely toothless. They can offer words of advice to bring companies in to line with their codes but anything beyond that is the courts. Something as minor as this that isn't right but rarely causes issues probably wouldn't get looked at either. They aren't a big set up. It's a very murkey world. GC put these comps in their yearly review of legislation to the goverment but it's unlikely it will make much difference for awhile.

[northernladuk]

Update : Got the 'gone bust sorry but so no thanks' email this morning so that's that.

Toying with the idea of still following this up. They've change names on companies house, not folded the company so I believe their responsibilities stay the same but that could be temporary while they start to wind it down. Not sure why they'd change the name rather than just fold the original company so might be an out for me here.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this as I know about LTD's and half a clue about 'piercing the corporate veil' but wondering if anyone knows anything actually going after the director of the company for the money. Is it really an absolute dead end to the LTD and corporate veil is complex to do or is it possible they may hold the director liable if I go through small claims?

If not I'll just do a chargeback on by credit card if I can be bothered.

[ladymuck]

This is quite interesting, if you scroll down to the section "what if I am running a prize promotion"

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online...l#.V_KLClQrK73

You might be able to make a complaint to the ASA (for all the teeth they have) if the T&Cs didn't state when the prize was going to be paid out

[northernladuk]

a) £5k really.... is "it" worth it for loose change - AYCOTBAC?

I'm from Yorkshire. It's worth it. Beat's picking sticky coins off the floor in a nightclub at 2am.. just.

b) On line Prize Competitions...... Bloody Hell are you a Tart/Middle-aged Mum

Yes/No (except on Thursday nights when everyone is out.

Kiss it goodbye....... Move and on
If they don't disappear (pretty likely) and you eventually get any money - Count yourself lucky :-)

Fully prepared for that sadly.

[northernladuk]

I do wonder what the contract is for a prize draw and whether 'payment terms' are a thing that can be enforced. Saying it might take 90 working days to pay out prizes is cheeky but it's not like withholding payment for a service that has been delivered.

None of them have official dates. They may say in your bank in a week or something like that which is enough for a contract but very grey.
Yeah it's different but I'm pretty sure 90 days isn't fair and reasonable for B2C so can be challenged. Plenty of places say it's unfair but can't find any detail on what can be done or what rules it's breaking.