Reply to: Rules regarding work away from home.

[cojak]

I think that we have done as much as we can with this thread.

I would just point to Ladymuck’s post and advise that you ask your question there.

Maybe post your question on the HMRC Expenses forum (which I didn't know existed until 5 mins ago) and see what HMRC Admin nn says...

https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/forums...orums/expenses

[eek]

If you are not there for a business reason you cannot claim. How hard is that to understand? Jesus

Actually - if you are there for business reasons but extend it beyond those business reasons (say for weekends) you can't claim - and there is whole heaps of expenses case law that relates to this...

I'm posting this because the OP is talking about months rather than odd nights and once you start looking at renting flats rather than hotel rooms it gets very awkward via quickly.

[northernladuk]

No one is understanding my question.

Yes we are. You are not understanding the answer. If it is not wholly and exclusively for business you cannot claim. Covid, black death, metorite hitting earth, the answer is still the same.

Please read my original post again. I mentioned "Covid times" - I thought that would be self explanatory. When was that last time you had a pandemic of that scale? Spanish Flu 1918. You weren't even born then. Now keeping that in mind ..

All that has absolutely nothing to do with a business expense.

Under "normal" circumstances (before the pandemic), every one knows that you can't claim an expense like that. That wasn't even a consideration for HMRC because a 99% of the people would work from a client's work place.

You are wrong. Since the dawn of expenses you could only claim if you were working away from home for a business reason. If you live in Leeds and take a gig in London and have to be at clients site then it is a business trip away from your normal office which is home. You cannot do the job unless you move so the business stumps up. You were never able to swan about and live where you want for short periods and claim it from the business.

The situation has changed now. The government is forcing you to stay away from client's work place. 99% (just a number to indicate majority) are now working away from client's place of business. The government is forcing the client to make all contractors and employees work away from the normal place of business. The client's definition of WFH is anywhere in the UK. The pre-pandemic way of thinking about rules does not apply. If you catch covid and have to isolate to stay away from your family home (say - in a hotel), would you claim expense?

So you are working from your home which is the businesses office. No you wouldn't. It's not a business expense.

The question is simple. In these covid times, can you travel to a new place and claim expense? Before you start typing and going after the accountant and me, have a think about how the rules will apply in this new situation we're in. The rules that are in place may not have even considered a pandemic like this.

And the answer is very clear. If you are not there for buiness reasons you cannot claim.

Do you get what I'm asking here?

Yes.. and you cannot claim.

This is getting stupid. What bit about business reason to be working where you are are you not getting?

If you are not there for a business reason you cannot claim. How hard is that to understand?

[Paralytic]

No-matter how you word it, no-matter whethere we're in Covid times, or in the midst of an alien invasion, the answer is still no. Unless the client stipulates you have to work in a certain location (and why would they, unless they wanted you in the office) then its not expensable.

Cue the next question: Can i ask my client to stipulate that I have to work in Edinburgh?

I'd still be interested in seeing the specific question the OP asked their accountant, and their response.

[DevUK]

I did before posting here to see what people think. They say you can if you travel and come back at the end of the week.


I wouldn't be posting here if it was obvious. The IR35 rules are designed so that you show that you are a company and you can work from anywhere. The client should not be able to dictate where you work, right? And you should be able to substitute .. blah blah i.e. You should be able to make your own decisions. I'm exercising that right. The responses here seem to suggest that if a client wants you in a certain location, then you can claim.

Yes. It is director's to work from another location. So, why can it not be submitted as an expense?

First off - apologies, saying "it's obvious" in my original reply wasn't particularly useful. You were asking for help, no need for me to have responded with that.

That said, I do think the premise is simply that unless an expense is incurred in order to directly contribute to the running of your business, it can't possibly be a business expense and so can't be claimed as such.

Let's take this to the extreme, if I'm UK-based but decided that, irrespective of business requirements, I'd prefer to work on my remote contract from a 5* hotel in Dubai for 6 months, we'd probably all agree I couldn't ask HMRC for tax relief on that.

I'm concerned over your accountant's response.

[SimonMac]

Yes, but the answer is still no irrespective of how many times you ask it

That was a glib answer and not very helpful in the professional forums, using your own logic the government is asking you to work from home, not from anywhere else

[SimonMac]

Do you get what I'm asking here?

Yes, but the answer is still no irrespective of how many times you ask it

[pkm]

No one is understanding my question.

Please read my original post again. I mentioned "Covid times" - I thought that would be self explanatory. When was that last time you had a pandemic of that scale? Spanish Flu 1918. You weren't even born then. Now keeping that in mind ..

Under "normal" circumstances (before the pandemic), every one knows that you can't claim an expense like that. That wasn't even a consideration for HMRC because a 99% of the people would work from a client's work place.

The situation has changed now. The government is forcing you to stay away from client's work place. 99% (just a number to indicate majority) are now working away from client's place of business. The government is forcing the client to make all contractors and employees work away from the normal place of business. The client's definition of WFH is anywhere in the UK. The pre-pandemic way of thinking about rules does not apply. If you catch covid and have to isolate to stay away from your family home (say - in a hotel), would you claim expense?

The question is simple. In these covid times, can you travel to a new place and claim expense? Before you start typing and going after the accountant and me, have a think about how the rules will apply in this new situation we're in. The rules that are in place may not have even considered a pandemic like this.

Do you get what I'm asking here?

[Paralytic]

In most of these cases the OP obsucates the situation or is deliberately vague in an attempt to gain the outcome they want rather than get the facts.

Agreed, but in this case, when asked if they asked the same question to their accountant, the response was

Certainly did. And even explained the intent.

If that truly was the case, then that accountant should be replaced asap for giving some seriously guff (and potentially damaging to the OP) advice.

[northernladuk]

If you asked your accountant this, word for word (as you imply), and (s)he said it was fine to claim it as an expense, i'd recommend changing your accountant, as you've no idea what other basic stuff they've gotten completely wrong.

Did you ask them the above, word for word. If not, what did you ask them and what was their response?

In most of these cases the OP obsucates the situation or is deliberately vague in an attempt to gain the outcome they want rather than get the facts.

[Paralytic]

Can I claim as expenses if I decide to work from another location? All you need is good internet in these covid times. If I book an apartment for a month in London or Edinburgh or anywhere else and work from there, can I claim that as an expense?

If you asked your accountant this, word for word (as you imply), and (s)he said it was fine to claim it as an expense, i'd recommend changing your accountant, as you've no idea what other basic stuff they've gotten completely wrong.

Did you ask them the above, word for word. If not, what did you ask them and what was their response?

[northernladuk]

I did before posting here to see what people think. They say you can if you travel and come back at the end of the week.

For business reasons only.

I wouldn't be posting here if it was obvious. The IR35 rules are designed so that you show that you are a company and you can work from anywhere. The client should not be able to dictate where you work, right? And you should be able to substitute .. blah blah i.e. You should be able to make your own decisions. I'm exercising that right. The responses here seem to suggest that if a client wants you in a certain location, then you can claim.

That's fine. You can work wherever you want yes. But as it is not a business incurred expense you cannot claim it through the business.

Yes. It is director's to work from another location. So, why can it not be submitted as an expense?

Because it's not a business expense.

You really aren't getting this are you.

You are thinking about this wrong... What is really happening is you are going somewhere you want to go and while you are there you are carrying on work. You are NOT moving there for work.

Because you are doing the former you cannot claim expenses.

If the accountant said you can then he is wrong.

[ladymuck]

... It is director's to work from another location. So, why can it not be submitted as an expense?

But you have to answer the question: what is the business requirement for working from a given location? As NLUK said at the very beginning, it has to pass the wholly and necessary test, just like every other expense you put through your business. Usually, that comes about because of a client requirement as it's hard to justify otherwise.

In one sense, your accountant is right, you can put any manner of expenses through your LtdCo. However, if you want to offset them against your CT bill (which is the main reason for wanting your company to pay the expenses) then there is a very simple test that HMRC applies and it's the same test regardless of whether you're paying for a pencil or a week the Bahamas.

Maybe post your question on the HMRC Expenses forum (which I didn't know existed until 5 mins ago) and see what HMRC Admin nn says...

https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/forums...orums/expenses

[pkm]

I don't think you asked your accountant the same question you asked us...

Certainly did. And even explained the intent. Do you think I take pleasure in inviting ridicule on this forum? Have you asked your accountant?

[eek]

I did ask the accountant before posting. Just gathering people's opinions - so don't assume a lot of things. They say you can.

I don't think you asked your accountant the same question you asked us...