Reply to: Agency won't stop Self Billing

[SueEllen]

Storm in a tea cup this thread, can't really see the issue here.

As long as HMRC see the invoice records properly accounted for they really won't look at anything else.

But... But... But.... My way is the right way.

[SueEllen]

My way of dealing with self billing is to create an exact duplicate of the agency self bill invoice (dates, numbers, invoice items) in FreeAgent for my own sake, but not send it to the client. Maybe i'm doing it wrong...

I've done this in the past.

Then I got an agency where you could put in your own invoice number.

[Fred Bloggs]

You are going to drop a gig over this? It's lie shooting yourself in the face because a fly landed on your forehead...

Whoosh, that's the sound of a sarcastic post as it goes straight over your head!

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I hope not because that's exactly what I'm doing as well :|

Because of FreeAgent's inability to deal with self-billing invoices properly, you most certainly *should* be doing this as its the only way in FreeAgent to ensure that the income is recorded on the correct date in the right VAT quarter unless you're using cash basis accounting.

If you just explain the payment when you reconcile your bank account there's a risk the income will be recorded in the wrong VAT quarter and your VAT returns will be wrong. Its not the worst thing in the world as you effectively correct the error on your next return but better to get it right in the first place.

I made this mistake years ago...I actually get paid by commission from FreeAgent for the number of referrals I've made and they do it on a self-billing basis. For ages I was just explaining the payments before I realised the error.

[malvolio]

I hope not because that's exactly what I'm doing as well :|

And me.

[MrMarkyMark]

You are going to drop a gig over this? It's lie shooting yourself in the face because a fly landed on your forehead...



Wait, what? I thought the only requirement is for the invoices to have unique numbers. I have been using different "series" of invoices for different clients and my accountant haven't mentioned anything.

My way of dealing with self billing is to create an exact duplicate of the agency self bill invoice (dates, numbers, invoice items) in FreeAgent for my own sake, but not send it to the client. Maybe i'm doing it wrong...

Storm in a tea cup this thread, can't really see the issue here.

As long as HMRC see the invoice records properly accounted for they really won't look at anything else.

[northernladuk]

My way of dealing with self billing is to create an exact duplicate of the agency self bill invoice (dates, numbers, invoice items) in FreeAgent for my own sake, but not send it to the client. Maybe i'm doing it wrong...

I hope not because that's exactly what I'm doing as well :|

[sal]

None at all. On second thoughts, quitting the gig would stop them pretty smartish.

You are going to drop a gig over this? It's lie shooting yourself in the face because a fly landed on your forehead...

~snip~In our defence there is also a requirement that our invoices are numbered sequentially, ~snip~

Wait, what? I thought the only requirement is for the invoices to have unique numbers. I have been using different "series" of invoices for different clients and my accountant haven't mentioned anything.

My way of dealing with self billing is to create an exact duplicate of the agency self bill invoice (dates, numbers, invoice items) in FreeAgent for my own sake, but not send it to the client. Maybe i'm doing it wrong...

[Contreras]

One of the invoices is valid and the other one isn't. Which one it is depends on whether you have a self billing agreement and in writing.

With an agreement in place, however you account internally, you certainly must not be issuing invoices. However without such an agreement you must issue invoices. The agency can decide to ignore these just as you can decide to ignore theirs, or you treat theirs as a remittance note. All fine until there's a discrepancy or the VAT man comes calling, although technically the agency is in the wrong.

What can you do?

- ask the agent for a copy of the self billing agreement, sign and return it, then stop issuing invoices. Agent is happy. You maybe not so, but at least still in contract.

- escalate, citing failure to comply with VAT rules. Be aware that they are perfectly within right to require self-billing as a term of business, in which case your final option is...

- give notice to terminate. And if you feel that strongly about it then also put it in writing about their failure with VAT compliance as the reason.

IMHO, the agent would need to be either stupid or on a ludicrously tight margin in order to decline the request to not self bill.

Btw, the VAT requirement for "serial numbering" is a red herring here, it's just as easily an argument that raising your own un-issued duplicate would break the numbering scheme for legitimately issued invoices.

[Scruff]

Then forget about the term duplicate tax point and just raise a "Pro-forma Invoice". KISS.

[openshac]

Create your own invoice by all means.

To prevent the duplicate Tax Point, just head it "Pro-forma Invoice", and keep it for your records as a cross-reference.

I can't because the agency are the ones creating the duplicate tax point.

[Lance]

Does that actually guarantee that a duplicate tax point is not created?

No idea. I use the same invoice reference though. And only get paid once.

[Scruff]

Create your own invoice by all means.

To prevent the duplicate Tax Point, just head it "Pro-forma Invoice", and keep it for your records as a cross-reference.

[missinggreenfields]

What other options do I have to stop them from Self Billing?

Leave and find an agency / client that doesn't operate self billing.

[Fred Bloggs]

I did speak to them but they just said they can't do anything as the system they use "is not set up for this and [they] are unable to manipulate the system".

What other options do I have to stop them from Self Billing?

None at all. On second thoughts, quitting the gig would stop them pretty smartish.