Public sector contracting

[m0n1k3r]

I now see more and more public sector contracts being advertised as "X months fixed term" with a typical public sector annual salary attached (pro-rated).

[northernladuk]

I now see more and more public sector contracts being advertised as "X months fixed term" with a typical public sector annual salary attached (pro-rated).

Yep. That's the standard way to resource permies in the Public sector so unless it's a proper contract that we know then every one should say that.

Problem is people don't understand that an FTC is an employment contract, not our type.

[DaveB]

Yep. That's the standard way to resource permies in the Public sector so unless it's a proper contract that we know then every one should say that.

Problem is people don't understand that an FTC is an employment contract, not our type.

Indeed. The days of the Civil Service being a job for life are long gone.

[Hobosapien]

Problem is people don't understand that an FTC is an employment contract, not our type.

Indeed. First time I'd heard of such a thing was when a fellow contractor at the client was tasked with resourcing a new project (he was more a general manager than a PM and 'did one' when there was a clampdown on disguised employees) and said the management were considering giving me an FTC.

I though it was just a normal contract with a specific end date to match the project end date, so didn't think it would be an issue. I wasn't amused when I found out it was a way for them to try to get me on the permie list after turning down 'going permie' when asked directly.

Quashed it during the clampdown by going through the working practices as part of the Qdos contract review, so all in the management chain knew if they wanted to keep me it would be on a strictly project basis, and other criteria had to be met/agreed to satisfy the review to keep me outside IR35.

So all good in the end.

I think FTC's are usually those zero hours 'keep them on the books but not necessarily paid if we don't have work for them' contracts that traditional agency temps tend to get. So easy to see why some may get confused if they don't look into the actual contract specifics. Not all contracts are the same.

[northernladuk]

I think FTC's are usually those zero hours 'keep them on the books but not necessarily paid if we don't have work for them' contracts that traditional agency temps tend to get. So easy to see why some may get confused if they don't look into the actual contract specifics. Not all contracts are the same.

You would be wrong then.

https://www.gov.uk/fixed-term-contra...dterm-contract

[SueEllen]

FTC give you full time employment for a fixed period of time.

Some companies do give permie perks as they may find a position available the person could fill permanently in the company. There was legislation that stated if a permanent opportunity came up within a couple of months of the contract ending the first person who must be offered the role was the person on the FTC.

In the public sector they use FTC as away of avoiding pension liabilities.

Zero hours contracts are at will contracts. So while you have permanent employment you may never work more than 1 hour for that employer.

[Hobosapien]

So FTC could be similar to a project specific contract.

Zero hours could be similar to a contract without mutuality of obligation for avoiding IR35.

No wonder there's all the fuss about disguised employees when on face value things appear similar until you delve into the actual meaning and specifics, and why some agencies have trouble distinguishing from temps and contractors.

[northernladuk]

So FTC could be similar to a project specific contract.

Zero hours could be similar to a contract without mutuality of obligation for avoiding IR35.

No wonder there's all the fuss about disguised employees when on face value things appear similar until you delve into the actual meaning and specifics, and why some agencies have trouble distinguishing from temps and contractors.

Your thinking is so blinkered it's still wrong. They are different animals so trying associate them with what we do is the going to give you the wrong idea. For example, not everything is project related. In fact you'll find only a small number of jobs are. You are not seeing the bigger picture. These cover ALL employees in all industries, not just contractor equivalents. E.g. zero hours has absolutely nothing to do with IR35.

[DaveB]

So FTC could be similar to a project specific contract.

Zero hours could be similar to a contract without mutuality of obligation for avoiding IR35.

No wonder there's all the fuss about disguised employees when on face value things appear similar until you delve into the actual meaning and specifics, and why some agencies have trouble distinguishing from temps and contractors.

Not really.

Fixed Term Contract is a Contract of Employment for a fixed period of time not for a specific piece of work.

Zero Hours Contract is a Contract of Employment with no minimum hours worked.

In both cases you are explicitly an employee of the company concerned. No disguise involved.

[SueEllen]

So FTC could be similar to a project specific contract.

Could be but tends not to be.

FTC are taken on especially by local councils because there is funding for a particular job role for 12 months or 2 years.

Zero hours could be similar to a contract without mutuality of obligation for avoiding IR35.

Nope.

Zero hours staff are either temps or directly employed e.g. retail staff, hotel staff, bar staff, local council workers. The demand for their work various daily, monthly or seasonally.

No wonder there's all the fuss about disguised employees when on face value things appear similar until you delve into the actual meaning and specifics, and why some agencies have trouble distinguishing from temps and contractors.

You need to stop thinking about the IT sector.

Actually take time out to talk to different people on how they are employed. If you work at a large client in a city when it's not busy take time to talk to the receptionists, security guards and cleaners. Then when you go shopping, do banking etc and it's not busy talk to the staff serving you.