Public sector contracting

[portseven]

started a gig with NHS this week no sign of issues, though told that when it comes to extension time, it needs to be approved by the cabinet office. expect that's when i will be fingered for the clauses

[Jog On]

I'm in a PS (local authority) gig (since October) and been told I'm likely to be here until June 2013....

Contract has all the right clauses for being outside and actual working practices are definitely outside (BA role, I'm the only BA in the whole project reporting to other contractors, completely responsible for defining and managing my workload...)

Plan B spends a lot on advertising (not contract related but funded by contract income) already, do I need to get an office and start sending in actual substitutes?

The advertising is a genuine entrepreneurial activity, I don't think I should have to jump through hoops to build my business.....

[LatteLiberal]

My extension will take me over the 6 months around Feb 2012 (Extended till June) at NHS. Nothing has been mentioned about the new policy to me here from Agent or Client. Is it better just to get out? I do not want any heat from HMRC (frankly the work here sucks so I am looking to get out anyway).

[7specialgems]

After reading through the full 21 pages (to date) of this thread I have picked up on a pair of statements which increasingly mascarade as fact throughout the thread:

1A. That non-office holding renewals >£220pd > 6 months in the PS is inside IR35 automatically.

1B. That where the PSC is deemed medium risk or higher by HMRC's business entity tests, that the PS client assumes that the PSC is inside IR35 in 100% of cases and that client is looking for proof in payslips that a deemed payment for inside IR35 is being operated.

Can we clarify this far through the thread that both of the above are in fact false and that the below is correct? (amend as appropriate and obviously with the caveat that this is our best understanding to date)

1B: That non-office holding renewals > £220pd > 6 months in the PS become subject to HMRC's business entity tests for the duration of the proceeding six months.

2B: That a professional review of the contract is necessary if the HMRC business entity test returns a result of Medium or higher (despite the fact that it is prudent to seek a contract review before signing terms).

followed by either of:

2C: If the professional opinion suggests that the contract is outside of IR35 (depending on the client this might be a QDos review or a HMRC check - still grey), a certificate/letter from a suitable reviewing body is enough to satisfy the client.

or

2D: If the professional opinion suggests that the contract is inside of IR35, that the PSC consultant's payslips - copies of which are submitted to the PS client - demonstrate the operation of a deemed calculation

[cojak]

Good clarification. Thanks 7SG

Interesting if other poster's actual experience with the PS is different though...

[Qdos Contractor]

After reading through the full 21 pages (to date) of this thread I have picked up on a pair of statements which increasingly mascarade as fact throughout the thread:

1A. That non-office holding renewals >£220pd > 6 months in the PS is inside IR35 automatically.

1B. That where the PSC is deemed medium risk or higher by HMRC's business entity tests, that the PS client assumes that the PSC is inside IR35 in 100% of cases and that client is looking for proof in payslips that a deemed payment for inside IR35 is being operated.

Can we clarify this far through the thread that both of the above are in fact false and that the below is correct? (amend as appropriate and obviously with the caveat that this is our best understanding to date)

1B: That non-office holding renewals > £220pd > 6 months in the PS become subject to HMRC's business entity tests for the duration of the proceeding six months.

2B: That a professional review of the contract is necessary if the HMRC business entity test returns a result of Medium or higher (despite the fact that it is prudent to seek a contract review before signing terms).

followed by either of:

2C: If the professional opinion suggests that the contract is outside of IR35 (depending on the client this might be a QDos review or a HMRC check - still grey), a certificate/letter from a suitable reviewing body is enough to satisfy the client.

or

2D: If the professional opinion suggests that the contract is inside of IR35, that the PSC consultant's payslips - copies of which are submitted to the PS client - demonstrate the operation of a deemed calculation

This is certainly accurate in all of the cases we have dealt with. We've now done over 100 'certificates' for PS contractors and haven't had any rejections from PS bodies. Thankfully haven't come across any that have demanded a HMRC review.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Having read through the minutes from the Public Accounts Committee meetings on this subject it seems that the Government are trying to put the onus on public sector departments to ensure that the contractors they have working for them are 'fulfilling their tax obligations'. The departments have been advised to change their contracts to allow them to request evidence from contractors on contracts over £220 per day and longer than 6 months - it sounds as though they are now being over cautious in their position. Bit like health and safety I suppose - they probably feel that they can't be too careful and if everyone works inside they won't have to worry about it.

[BolshieBastard]

The plain fact is, despite what bit of paper qdos et al may give the contractor, you are flagging yourself up to hmrc and ir35.

In any event, every contractor I know always but always slews their working practices in these insurance questionnaires to be on the outside of ir35. It is no surprise qdos etc issue certificates based as outside given, only the contractor's answers are the baseline. It would be interesting how many of these outside ir35 certificates were issued IF the client's input had been sought. I suspect many fewer.

Just remember waving a certificate when hmrc come calling may not be worth very much.

[Rabotnik]

As I've mentioned in the other public sector thread, I'm leaving my public sector role next Thursday to avoid any IR35 proof shenanigans, and my manager has had loads of CVs coming through. From the looks of it they are all quite good, with many years of BI contracting under their belts. So either they are unaware of the new legislation (most likely), or they don't care. They are actually hiring 3 guys to replace me (or they took this chance to request more budget and get all the hiring done in one go).

Incidentally, the agent that originally got me the gig and his colleague claimed to have no idea what I was talking about when I said the reason I was leaving was due to the new legislation (the client wanted me to renew again).

Though agents claiming ignorance/being ignorant is nothing new...

[BolshieBastard]

As I've mentioned in the other public sector thread, I'm leaving my public sector role next Thursday to avoid any IR35 proof shenanigans, and my manager has had loads of CVs coming through. From the looks of it they are all quite good, with many years of BI contracting under their belts. So either they are unaware of the new legislation (most likely), or they don't care. They are actually hiring 3 guys to replace me (or they took this chance to request more budget and get all the hiring done in one go).

Incidentally, the agent that originally got me the gig and his colleague claimed to have no idea what I was talking about when I said the reason I was leaving was due to the new legislation (the client wanted me to renew again).

Though agents claiming ignorance/being ignorant is nothing new...

Been contacted by a pimp today about a public sector contract, £200 a day

Course they didnt state the rate or client up front so had to push them for this. Once they told me the client and rate I said no thanks. They asked why. I said due to the nonsense the government \ hmrc had instigated in their witchhunt against 'off payroll contractors' and iR35. Said by the time I'd accounted for deemed employment, the rate would be about £125 - £150 a day.

Pimp said he had lots of interest in the job at the rate quoted plus he's never heard of this IR35 and the public sector (oh aye!) clampdown.

Avoid, avoid, avoid.