Public sector contracting

[GB9]

Right, got the opportunity of a role with a supplier \ consultancy working for a Government qango.

What is the position re these new IR35 'rules' for contractors working via a 3rd party supplier \ consultancy?

Are you expected to fall into this 'prove you are outside IR35' bollocks or does this only apply if you are hired directly by the Government Department?

Spoke to QDOS about this in Jan and their view was that provided the contract was compliant etc., there shouldn't be any problem.

I would be more concerned that when working for a consultancy they would expect to control what you do and how.

[quackhandle]

One of my past (NHS) gigs is back up, but for 15-200 a day it would seem like the penny has finally dropped with the agency (rhymes with Days).

qh

[northernladyuk]

Here is an odd one. A couple of weeks ago, the axe falls - it's been a good run but so be it.

Dear Mrs N

Blah blah Cabinet Office blah blah HMRC blah blah

Please complete Business Entity Test - but we just get the spreadsheet with questions, no scores, no interpretation of scores, no indication of how data will be stored or shared. Also, please send over last year's Ltd accounts and your personal tax return. And your 'line manager' needs to sign this. And it need to be done in 7 working days.

I believe youngsters say, 'WTF?'

Next morning, another emailing requesting us to ignore previous email. And nothing since...

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Right, got the opportunity of a role with a supplier \ consultancy working for a Government qango.

What is the position re these new IR35 'rules' for contractors working via a 3rd party supplier \ consultancy?

Are you expected to fall into this 'prove you are outside IR35' bollocks or does this only apply if you are hired directly by the Government Department?

From what I have seen from the Public Sector grillings by Margaret Hodge et al the concern for the Government is that they could be complicit in Morally Repugnant (tm) tax avoidance so I don't think they would consider that an an agency or consultancy would offer any protection from that accusation if the contractor is working inside IR35 but drawing divs from their company

[GB9]

From what I have seen from the Public Sector grillings by Margaret Hodge et al the concern for the Government is that they could be complicit in Morally Repugnant (tm) tax avoidance so I don't think they would consider that an an agency or consultancy would offer any protection from that accusation if the contractor is working inside IR35 but drawing divs from their company

That sounds about correct.

As we all know, Margaret Hodge is a Labour MP (millionaire) and Labour clamped down heavily on 'morally repugnant' tax payments during their 13 years in power. This was in addition to introducing the 50% rate of tax for top earners (for all of 3 weeks) and signing off enormous pension pots for failed bankers. (I could go on about hypocrisy).

It seems perfectly reasonable for her to be lecturing us on morality now.

[northernladuk]

Interesting mail from PCG just come in...

Dear PCG member

A call to arms – time to stand up for contracting

In 2007 PCG members Geoff and Diana Jones won a famous victory over HMRC in the House of Lords. It was a long and hard battle, but with PCG’s support and a fantastic display of fortitude and perseverance Geoff and Diana Jones set a precedent which has assisted huge numbers of small business owners ever since.

The “Arctic Systems” case is one of the greatest examples of what the small guy can achieve when he’s teamed up with the right people – in Geoff’s case his fellow PCG members, who both cheered him on and enabled PCG to fund his battle.

PCG now needs your help for a new battle. We need our members to fight the Government’s ill–considered public sector rules. We’re not asking for money, we’re asking for that same commitment and determination that Geoff and Diana showed.

In case you missed it, Government Departments and their executive agencies now require contractors to provide assurance that their tax obligations are being met. In theory this seems reasonable enough but in practice, as many of you unfortunately know first-hand, it has caused a great deal of confusion, disruption and damage.

PCG has advised members to undertake an independent contract review and present that as evidence to their engaging Department or Government Agency. We believe this should be enough to satisfy them and in many instances, this was accepted. However, PCG has received reports that some Departments are refusing to accept the validity of the contract reviews. Instead they are, under threat of contract termination, forcing contractors to operate IR35 or move to using an Umbrella, regardless of their actual IR35 status. In some cases Departments are insisting that contracts are reviewed only by HMRC. HMRC’s own guidelines are unclear and Departments are apparently gold-plating them.

PCG considers this practice to be unacceptable and has taken legal advice. We do not believe that a Government Department has the right to force our members to operate IR35 if their contracts are outside IR35. We want to challenge this by a pursuing a Judicial Review and we need members to come forward to supply us with real cases and allow us to represent them.

PCG would cover all of the legal costs and would fully support you through the process, just as we did when we supported Geoff and Diana Jones leading up to their triumph in 2007. We believe this current battle is just as significant.

For years the public sector has benefitted from the skills and expertise of the UK’s 1.6million freelancers. PCG want that to continue. Government Department clients have no right to force contractors to operate IR35 without giving them a chance to demonstrate their actual IR35 status.

If this has happened to you and you’d like to do something about it, please contact Simon McVicker, Head of Public Affairs at PCG at [email protected].

We believe the time has come to take a stand.


Yours sincerely


Chris Bryce
Chairman, PCG

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Interesting mail from PCG just come in...

They're sounding worried

[malvolio]

They're sounding worried

They're doing what they were set up to do - protect contractors from Government idiocy.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

They're doing what they were set up to do - protect contractors from Government idiocy.

They're still sounding worried. Not sure they can win this one though - you are talking about Government procurement policy

[malvolio]

They're still sounding worried. Not sure they can win this one though - you are talking about Government procurement policy

Nobody said it was easy. They may not succeed.

But they certainly won't if they don't try.