How to provide a substitute?

[dogeson]

Hey,

So I'm contracting for US client through LTD (retainer fee, fixed monthly payment + shares for the director). I have all 3 Outisde IR35 points reviewed, but to strengthen my position, I'd like to send a substitute for a week. As I understand RoS is a killer feature and if I can do that then HMRC can't argue I'm Outside.
My question is: How do I do that? i.e., how I can ensure that the paper trail is genuine so I can use that as a proof? Do I ask the client via email, do I save the emails of negotiation with the substitute? Do I need to draft a contract for the substitute?
Also, does it matter who I send? Can I send an individual or a company? Can I send a colleague that works or worked in the past for my client?

I also plan to ask them to sign Confirmation of Arrangements after that

Thanks

[ladymuck]

Does the US Client have any form of UK presence?

[cojak]

Is this the Panama client?

[northernladuk]

Is this thread even real?

[northernladuk]

Hey,

So I'm contracting for US client through LTD (retainer fee, fixed monthly payment + shares for the director). I have all 3 Outisde IR35 points reviewed, but to strengthen my position, I'd like to send a substitute for a week. As I understand RoS is a killer feature and if I can do that then HMRC can't argue I'm Outside.
My question is: How do I do that? i.e., how I can ensure that the paper trail is genuine so I can use that as a proof? Do I ask the client via email, do I save the emails of negotiation with the substitute? Do I need to draft a contract for the substitute?
Also, does it matter who I send? Can I send an individual or a company? Can I send a colleague that works or worked in the past for my client?

I also plan to ask them to sign Confirmation of Arrangements after that

Thanks

You are really starting to get grating. Being clueless is one thing, proving it over and over is getting a bit tedious. Your lack of understanding of IR35 and business is your biggest risk. Just thrashing about playing at IR35 just doesn't wash. But I'll entertain you as it might be useful to someone else in the future.

Firstly you need to send a substitute, not a temp. That means that person must be trained up in what you can do and can properly subtitute for you. Just sending some random bod in for a week is going to make you look a right idiot and be absolutely no use to the client whatsover. Go in with that plan, they will say no and you've just blown your own IR35 status. Not right smart that is it?

You need your client to accept a substitute first, and I'll be willing to bet it falls apart right there but lets assume they say yes. You need to train up the sub on the people, process, situation and all the knowledge they need to carry on from Monday as if you werent there. This has to be done on YOUR time, not in client time. It's likely you'll have to pay the other person to do this as well. So say two days to get up to speed. Two days you don't work and got to pay them. Still looking attractive?

You need to work with your client to get them access to all they need. O365 access, folders access, potentially to your emails and so on and go through it as part of the knowledge transfer I just mentioned.

You can send anyone you want but to engage that person you are going to have a contract because YOU will be paying them. So all the proof you need is in that contract.

You go off Friday, they come in Monday and do a weeks work. I'd imagine you'll need to do a hand back in YOUR time, not the clients and the person will probably want paying for that as well.

All of that is assuming your client will accept a sub for one week, which no client in their right mind will do.

My advice to you, so as not to appear utterly clueless and a liability to their business is to just shut up and do what you are contracted to do. By attempting to carry your idea out you are gonna expose yourself to your client and when they say no, blow your own IR35 status.

If you still intend to have a week off I'd spending it trying to understand what you do better without having to ask every single minute question.

[courtg9000]

First, will the client agree with the use of the RoS and agree to your choice of substitute?
If you can manage that then you will have succeeded where a great many contractors (probably thousands) have failed over the years.
In most cases there is more chance of Spurs winning a trophy before I kick the bucket than there is of the RoS being completely agreed by a client. (Not too much longer on the clock by the way!)

Is the contract between you and the substitute outside and will real-world arrangements echo that?

Will HMRC accept that all contracts are outside and that real-world arrangments reflect that?

MY advice - take the week off as leave and go to Benidorm or wherever and get drunk and find a new cause. Spurs could do with a supporter with the avarice that you seem to have displayed recently if they want a trophy in my lifetime!

[malvolio]

Also worth remembering that for a substitute to be a suitable defence they take over the whole contract for the duration in its entirety. They aren't just a spare body to work the keyboard, they are genuinely YourCo with access to all YourCo's assets. You can have a discussion over how much of the day rate they get to keep when they hand it back of course, but they are actually within their rights to keep all of it unless you agree something different.

But all hypothetical anyway. No sensible client - much less the agency - will allow your scenario to happen.

[fabios]

No sensible client - much less the agency - will allow your scenario to happen.

Which just proves how tru the outside IR35 contracts are. The scenario is not much different to a consultancy switching consultants between projects. The issue is the time (= cost) it takes to setup a substitute but it should all be covered by the consultancy (no matter how big it is).