Has anyone actually been investigated?

[eek]

Yeah I said accountant, but really what I mean is the accountancy firm I use they provide professional IR35 review service. So initially they said my RoS is not right, and they provided the wording to make it unfettered. Same with MOO and Control, added a few new clauses there. Only on the share options we didn't agree, so I called QDOS for a free advice and got an email from them as a confirmation, but the reviewer I have used didn't agree, so we kind of agreed to disagree on that one and I went with self-determination.

Changing words in a contract means sod all when it comes to IR35 - the story isn't the contract it's how the actual contract (and day to day work) was conducted.

Basically if you are deciding that you are inside now it's going to be very hard to prove you haven't always been inside.

[dogeson]

Changing words in a contract means sod all when it comes to IR35 - the story isn't the contract it's how the actual contract (and day to day work) was conducted.

Basically if you are deciding that you are inside now it's going to be very hard to prove you haven't always been inside.

The thing I'm considering, is ok, my relationship with the client is Oustide IR35 at the moment, since I have RoS, MOO etc. and my WPs are compliant. But let's say I want to take on permanent employment, that would mean a WP and relationship change no? For example, I'll be subject to normal working hours, employment rights, control from the client etc.

[northernladuk]

so I called QDOS for a free advice and got an email from them as a confirmation, but the reviewer I have used didn't agree, so we kind of agreed to disagree on that one and I went with self-determination.

So what was teh point of ringing them if you weren't going to listen to them. Free advice, accountant doing IR35, nothing about actual working practices, ignoring advice and playing it lose. This iw what puts you at the top of the list for investigations.

But let's say I want to take on permanent employment, that would mean a WP and relationship change no? For example, I'll be subject to normal working hours, employment rights, control from the client etc.

Remember that bit I mentioned about understanding what you do properly? You've ignored professional advice because you know better than you ask that???

[dogeson]

So what was teh point of ringing them if you weren't going to listen to them. Free advice, accountant doing IR35, nothing about actual working practices, ignoring advice and playing it lose. This iw what puts you at the top of the list for investigations.

I didn't fully ignore the advice. Basically they said: Hey, you do all this points and you're outside IR35. I went to the client, updated the contract, did everything they said.
Then: Hey, but the stock options are in your name. I went to the client, they said that there's no way legally to give them to entities (US laws and such). Reviewer didn't agree, so I called QDOS to confirm so I have a leg to stand on. Thus, Outside from all points (and working practices), inside from the reviwers opinion. From my POV, I did take reasonable care to be compliant. Also got a bunch of CEST tool assesments as well.
I'm not saying that it's full blown 100% outside ir35 by all means, but according to HMRC clauses and overall advice I get, I would say it's more than a marginal pass.
And given the fact that the client is overseas (which reduces the likelyhood of investigation and inside assesment) + I got insurance in place, I do think the risk is low.

[RobScott]

Hello,
I'm reading here a lot about IR35.. but really, has anyone actually been investigated or it's just a scary deterrent?
Looking at the case history, that's about 1 or 2 a year? and targeting celebrities.
Like what are the real risks?

Juding by this article, it's close to zero. So why do people worry so much?

https://www.contractorcalculator.co....2610_news.aspx

HMRC is focused on schemes and celebrities.
they don't have the resources to go after 20k/30k, which a typical contractor might be in grey area.

so, you should be fine. millions of contractors are working and they are important to the economy. people have bought expensive houses and any investigation will affect the housing market too, and so politicians don't dare to spoil it.

[PerfectStorm]

HMRC is focused on schemes and celebrities.
they don't have the resources to go after 20k/30k, which a typical contractor might be in grey area.

so, you should be fine. millions of contractors are working and they are important to the economy. people have bought expensive houses and any investigation will affect the housing market too, and so politicians don't dare to spoil it.

They did however go back to get people to pay for 'schemes' in the past

[dingdong]

There are lots of cases of HMRC issuing nudge letters to contractors about their IR35 status (e.g. the 1500 contractors at GSK). Most people keep quiet when HRMC is investigating them hence why you don't see much mention of it on here.... and you only see rich celebrities in the news as other people tend to settle!

Right now they are probably more focused on the MSC issue as a potentially huge new target for them

[malvolio]

HMRC is focused on schemes and celebrities.
they don't have the resources to go after 20k/30k, which a typical contractor might be in grey area.

so, you should be fine. millions of contractors are working and they are important to the economy. people have bought expensive houses and any investigation will affect the housing market too, and so politicians don't dare to spoil it.

Can I come and live in your world. It sounds nice...

[PerfectStorm]

The longer time goes on, the longer I wonder if IR35 insurance is an industry unto itself, presenting a threat not unlike Chancel Repair Liability for its customers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chancel_repair_liability

Most people I work alongside are blissfully unaware of QDOS, IPSE and co - and sign whatever they're given. Makes me look like a right difficult...

[northernladuk]

The longer time goes on, the longer I wonder if IR35 insurance is an industry unto itself, presenting a threat not unlike Chancel Repair Liability for its customers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chancel_repair_liability

Most people I work alongside are blissfully unaware of QDOS, IPSE and co - and sign whatever they're given. Makes me look like a right difficult...

From what I've seen from time to time on here a number of people have used the tax investigation element of the insurance if not the IR35 one. Many more people get tax enquiries than they do IR35. That is if the policy you have covers tax as well as IR35 of course but we've pointed a number of people to the IPSE and (I think) the QDOS tax helplines.