I am going to open a computer shop to justify being outside IR35

[IR35equalshateoflittleguy]

On the other hand the analysis I have done suggests that probably the only way out of this is to provide a product or products with support contracts.

This sort of route would depend on multiple clients though.
The problem with this is that most companies that engage contractors don't want products, they want a bum on a chair and often they are not always absolutely clear on what they want that bum on a chair to exactly and actually do!
I managed to create some product/service combo's for my post IT stuff but these solve specific problems for a certain market. I had planned to add modules that could be slightly tweaked.

That is interesting, I guess i could redefine my work as products. What a ridiculous thing to have to do though in order to operate as a company.

[northernladuk]

You'd think if the OP has such a strong user handle and opinions on IR35 you'd think they'd have a clue wouldn't you?

Isn't it funny that people that tend to make the most noise about things tend to be the people that know the least.

[Lance]

I would refuse any new inside IR35 roles on the basis that I am operating as a company not as an employee.

I think what you mean is "My company will not engage with any client inside IR35. I will not be employed by any company."
You are not "operating as a company" you are a business owner. One with not great attention to detail.

But yes. You're within your rights to decline that work.
As a point of note, this isn't about IT. This is about all contracting. Maybe your computer shop is the way forward. I've known quite a few get some business work that way. Usually flogging anti-virus after the fact and fixing PCs for £35 an hour, but it's a business.

[Lance]

You'd think if the OP has such a strong user handle and opinions on IR35 you'd think they'd have a clue wouldn't you?

Isn't it funny that people that tend to make the most noise about things tend to be the people that know the least.

Like Covidiots on Twitter?

[IR35equalshateoflittleguy]

I think what you mean is "My company will not engage with any client inside IR35. I will not be employed by any company."
You are not "operating as a company" you are a business owner. One with not great attention to detail.

But yes. You're within your rights to decline that work.
As a point of note, this isn't about IT. This is about all contracting. Maybe your computer shop is the way forward. I've known quite a few get some business work that way. Usually flogging anti-virus after the fact and fixing PCs for £35 an hour, but it's a business.

Is that a business though? what next HMRC telling the computer shop owner every customer he has has to hire him through an umbrella company...

[IR35equalshateoflittleguy]

I think what you mean is "My company will not engage with any client inside IR35. I will not be employed by any company."
You are not "operating as a company" you are a business owner. One with not great attention to detail.

But yes. You're within your rights to decline that work.
As a point of note, this isn't about IT. This is about all contracting. Maybe your computer shop is the way forward. I've known quite a few get some business work that way. Usually flogging anti-virus after the fact and fixing PCs for £35 an hour, but it's a business.

My company never engages with any inside IR35 clients as those go direct. Any company operates as a company and any business owner operates their company as a company. Semantics but yea attention to detail I guess?

[Lance]

Is that a business though? what next HMRC telling the computer shop owner every customer he has has to hire him through an umbrella company...

No. Your shop would be responsible for determining if the work you do for each customer would fall under IR35. Same as it has been since 2001.

[Lance]

My company never engages with any inside IR35 clients as those go direct.

What??????

If you work for the client direct you're not inside IR35. There is no intermediary. You are an employee, perhaps only temporarily, or possibly self-employed (unlikely).

Details...... Again....

[IR35equalshateoflittleguy]

No. Your shop would be responsible for determining if the work you do for each customer would fall under IR35. Same as it has been since 2001.

No, I think it would be the customer/client who decides whether my contract with them was inside or outside. So if I am operating a computer shop and I get a business customer, they may have to take me on as an employee, forcing me to do business as an employee, while I am trying to run my business, I would have to take on several employee jobs at the same time. I guess they got around this by adding in clauses that make it only apply to contracts with large corporations. So banks, law firms, pharmaceutical and of course the beast government sector as well. How they can justify not applying this to every service contract and only large corporations is still arbitrary and unknown to me.

[IR35equalshateoflittleguy]

What??????

If you work for the client direct you're not inside IR35. There is no intermediary. You are an employee, perhaps only temporarily, or possibly self-employed (unlikely).

Details...... Again....

My inside IR35 contract has nothing to do with my limited company, I can even close it down and it would make no difference to my inside IR35 contracts. Inside IR35 contracts are basically employee contracts but done in such a way so that the client doesn't have to pay employer NI. That could just as easily be a fixed term contract.