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Anglo American - outside to inside

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    Anglo American - outside to inside

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    Last edited by HelpNeeded101; 12 March 2021, 11:36.

    #2
    I you look up the forum a few threads you will see a sticky titled 'Assessed as Inside from April or a Blanket Ban - it's time to leave' and a bit below another called 'IR35: Planning for April 2021 – should I stay or should I go?'

    Probably doesn't cover such a short engagement but the theory is all there to help you decide.

    We aren't in your shoes so can't answer. Leaving or staying needs to take in to account a host of other factors. For example. If you've a massive warchest behind you then you should leave. If you've no warchest it might be worth the risk for only a few months so stay. If your wife is an utter nightmare and pecks your head all the time then you should leave and get a staying away gig. If your wife is hot as hell you need to leave and make sweet love all day long. If you don't have a clue about this whole thing then you're just a permatractor that should be inside you need to stay. I'm sure there are a whole host of other sceanrios that relate to your shoes we don't know about as well so it's hard to say.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 9 March 2021, 23:12.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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      #3
      Is it a blanket inside IR35 or have they assess each role and a few are still outside. What's your skillset? PM, Service, code? Just to get an idea what roles are being assessed inside in companies that are doing it properly.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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        #4
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        Last edited by HelpNeeded101; 12 March 2021, 11:37.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by HelpNeeded101 View Post
          Thanks very much northernladuk

          Anglo American made us do a QDOS questionnaire and then they worked with QDOS themselves, this lead to a Status Determination Statement report.
          So it is not a business wide blanket ban as some (10%) contractors have been found outside but 90% (like me and my co-workers) have been found inside

          My skillset is PM / PMO / Change Mgmt

          Please see below for an example of a the QDOS question and Anglo American's response:


          QDOS question - Regardless of the written terms of your current/impending contract, if you were unable to provide the services, would the end client accept your business sending another person to undertake the services on your behalf, provided they were suitably skilled and qualified?

          My answer - Yes I can send another person

          IR35 Consultant feedback: Hiring manager has confirmed the contractor does not have the right to provide a substitute. This would indicate
          that there is a personal service requirement and would contribute to inside determination made.

          So they've employed you to do a particular job and won't accept anyone else doing it. That to me says you have always been inside and any substitution clause was incorrect in the first place.

          Now you still have MOO and control but it does seem the contract really is inside in the end clients viewpoint.

          So you options are - stay or try to find another contract.

          However as you've only been working there 3 months the tax hit is nothing like the same as if you had been there for years so personally I would be staying as I doubt you are going to find a replacement contract easily and the chances are that that contract will also be inside.
          Last edited by Contractor UK; 24 May 2021, 21:43.
          merely at clientco for the entertainment

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by HelpNeeded101 View Post
            Thanks very much northernladuk

            Anglo American made us do a QDOS questionnaire and then they worked with QDOS themselves, this lead to a Status Determination Statement report.
            So it is not a business wide blanket ban as some (10%) contractors have been found outside but 90% (like me and my co-workers) have been found inside

            My skillset is PM / PMO / Change Mgmt

            Please see below for an example of a the QDOS question and Anglo American's response:


            QDOS question - Regardless of the written terms of your current/impending contract, if you were unable to provide the services, would the end client accept your business sending another person to undertake the services on your behalf, provided they were suitably skilled and qualified?

            My answer - Yes I can send another person

            IR35 Consultant feedback: Hiring manager has confirmed the contractor does not have the right to provide a substitute. This would indicate
            that there is a personal service requirement and would contribute to inside determination made.

            Grinds my gears they ask the contractor to fill in the form. Complete waste of time as per the above. The contractor puts what they THINK is the situation but don't really know. They never have. So why are they asking the contractor? If they are using QDOS why hasn't QDOS pointed out the flaw in the plan? Or does their offering look meaty because of the extra steps and they can justify more money?
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

              Grinds my gears they ask the contractor to fill in the form. Complete waste of time as per the above. The contractor puts what they THINK is the situation but don't really know. They never have. So why are they asking the contractor? If they are using QDOS why hasn't QDOS pointed out the flaw in the plan? Or does their offering look meaty because of the extra steps and they can justify more money?
              By getting the contractor to fill in a form - Agencies can pass the bill down to the contractor to pay rather than the end client / agency paying it.

              Now there is a fundamental flaw in that approach (contractors won't be happy to pay for a survey that doesn't give them result they want) but QDOS haven't posted here since I pointed out that (very obvious) flaw in their plan.
              Last edited by eek; 10 March 2021, 10:06.
              merely at clientco for the entertainment

              Comment


                #8
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                Last edited by HelpNeeded101; 12 March 2021, 11:37.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I hope you realise that if you stay past April 6 (presumable on an inside IR35 basis), you might as well (barring another contract that pays better/has better opportunities) stay for as long as the contract lasts.

                  The increased risk of requiring to pay back-dated tax for the Dec 2020-April 2021 work kicks in as soon as you stay even just 1 beyond April 6 and switch to an inside contract. Despite your appeal, you will be (in HMRCs eyes) effectively be accepting that you have always been a deemed employee and will have to have a strong defence to prove otherwise. I doubt you can do that given the information provided as part of the SDS/appeal.

                  Given the rather short period of time you were self-determining inside, unless you do have another gig to go to, i'd be setting aside some funds to pay for the tax that might be due one day, and carry on at the client, looking for other gigs in the meantime.

                  If you do decide to leave before April, and truly feel, and can show, the SDS is wrong (do you?) I'd be writing back to HR, challenging the 2 points, stating that your contract and working practices to date do not match what they have said, so you must therefore give notice of the business engagement.
                  Last edited by Paralytic; 10 March 2021, 15:22.

                  Comment


                    #10
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                    Last edited by HelpNeeded101; 12 March 2021, 11:37.

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