Can I do 2 Inside IR35 contracts at a time(1st with limited comp & 2nd with umbrella)

**cojak** · 9 March 2021, 21:21

It will depend on what both contracts say about working hours and if it’s ok to work for another company at the same time.

And then it will depend on whether you can keep up with the work for both companies and keep them both happy.

if both answers to that are ‘yes’ then it’s up to you if you do it or not.

(It’s obviously not an ethical question for you and we aren’t your parents...)

PS. Don’t be surprised to have HMRC turn up and ask you about why you suddenly started paying more tax after the 6th April, and why you weren’t paying that before.

PPS. Check with your accountant. Working inside IR35 with your PSC will be a mess.

**northernladuk** · 9 March 2021, 22:15

Originally posted by Prab35 View Post

my question is - can I do both inside IR35 contracts at a time ?

Yes but no. Yes. Nothing wrong with having two income streams. Many people have two jobs, many companies have multiple clients. Just have to bugger around with the inside one and a bit of a messy year end but nothing your accountant can't sort out.

And no. We've had a load of these recently for some reason and in every case it's someone eyeing up to DAILY rate contracts asking if they can do them both. The answer is no. Gigs are inside as they are treated like perm roles which will mean 9 to 5 at the client being told what to do when. No way can you do 16 hours in a working day and deliver to both clients. None of this, well I can finish that in half the time so I'll work on the other gig. You are inside so you are working 9 to 5, not on deliverables. If you finish two hours early you do something else for your client to fill the time. You won't be at either client long if you are doing someone elses work on their time. Ask both of them if they are OK you doing the other ones work during the day. I don't think you'll get a very positive response however much you kid yourself it's possible.

Might sound great having double income but that usually comes with a downside of double work, particularly inside so use come common and don't get greedy else there is a good chance you could screw them both up.

**ladymuck** · 9 March 2021, 23:15

Talking of the whole 16 hour day thing, I remember having a 'discussion' with an agent about a requirement in the contract to work 40 hours a week for the client. I said that stipulation was effectively stopping me taking on other clients and defined working hours had no place in a B2B contract. His answer was, we don't care what you do with the rest of the hours in the week but you work for the client for 40.

I then asked, will I be paid for 40 hours' work even if there isn't 40 hours work to do, as the contract states I have to work 40 hours a week. He said, no of course not, you're a contractor - you won't get paid if there's no work.

This is the mentality that both agents and clients have. It is exceptionally difficult to get them into thinking correctly (although, it can and does happen - improbable is not the same as impossible).

In that case, I had enough clout to get that term amended to something more amenable. I was helped by getting to 3pm on the Friday before the Monday I was due to start and saying, you do realise I've not signed the contract because of those clauses I don't like so won't be on site on Monday...

t'was a gamble but fortunately it paid off.

**ComplianceLady** · 15 March 2021, 09:36

I understand that the mentality is often a bit optimism biased but saying that if someone is inside IR35 they have to work 9 - 5 isn't accurate. You can work on deliverables and be PAYE - it could be that the client doesn't want to engage PSC's, that personal service is required or something similar. If the contract allows you to work on other projects and you can make it work then you can. Tax status doesn't change that.

**eek** · 15 March 2021, 09:39

Originally posted by ComplianceLady View Post

I understand that the mentality is often a bit optimism biased but saying that if someone is inside IR35 they have to work 9 - 5 isn't accurate. You can work on deliverables and be PAYE - it could be that the client doesn't want to engage PSC's, that personal service is required or something similar. If the contract allows you to work on other projects and you can make it work then you can. Tax status doesn't change that.

While that is true - how likely is that going to be in real life - if a company is recruiting someone that looks like an employee - they will expect them to look like an employee and be available on demand.

**Paralytic** · 15 March 2021, 11:26

Originally posted by eek View Post

While that is true - how likely is that going to be in real life - if a company is recruiting someone that looks like an employee - they will expect them to look like an employee and be available on demand.

Often the people who are making the "no PSC" decision are far-removed (in organisational structure terms) from the person hiring the contractor. It's very possible that a hiring manager, who previous engaged contractors as a true suppliers, will still sees the contractor as exactly that, even if they're through an Umbrella.

I do get that many (perhaps most) hiring managers do just see contractors as quasi-employees, however.

**northernladuk** · 15 March 2021, 11:39

Originally posted by ComplianceLady View Post

I understand that the mentality is often a bit optimism biased but saying that if someone is inside IR35 they have to work 9 - 5 isn't accurate. You can work on deliverables and be PAYE - it could be that the client doesn't want to engage PSC's, that personal service is required or something similar. If the contract allows you to work on other projects and you can make it work then you can. Tax status doesn't change that.

Where that might be true it's no where near reality on the ground. 99% of contracts are bums on seats and even more so if it's got an inside determination. There is little to no chance either of his contracts are either and he would need them both to be to pull this off.

It's just another contractor thinking they can pull two gigs off because they are at home out of both clients sight.

**ComplianceLady** · 15 March 2021, 15:08

I can only speak from my experience. An inside determination I would say 50% of the time is related to a control the client wants to exert and 50% due to risk mitigation/corporate policy. I work with clients who have never allowed PSC's and those who only allow PAYE, just because a role is only offered PAYE it shouldn't be assumed that that indicates working practices.

**northernladuk** · 15 March 2021, 16:12

Originally posted by ComplianceLady View Post

I can only speak from my experience. An inside determination I would say 50% of the time is related to a control the client wants to exert and 50% due to risk mitigation/corporate policy. I work with clients who have never allowed PSC's and those who only allow PAYE, just because a role is only offered PAYE it shouldn't be assumed that that indicates working practices.

Understood and you are quite correct but we are generally paid a day rate for a day of work. If the contract is deliverables based then away you go, but the number of contractors that have them are in the low single digits and I'd be willing to bet some of them are just a paperwork exercise and the client fully expects a full days work. To assume you can get away with doing half a days work because you think you can and not consider the agreement with the client is heading for trouble. If you have to hide it from the client then you are doing nothing more than ripping the client off.

Can I do 2 Inside IR35 contracts at a time(1st with limited comp & 2nd with umbrella)