Rishi Sunak confirms IR35 reform is going ahead w/o any major changes

[Lance]

Really? Its actually easy to argue:

Pre-April: I was self-determined outside. My professional review said so, my working practices said so, my client said so, CEST says so.

Pre-April: Legal at my client decided to remove risk and no longer engage with PSC.

Post April: I've gone PAYE/Ubmrella. It doesn't really matter now, but that doesn't change my Pre-April situation.

Yes, moving self-determined outside to PAYE/Umbrella might increase the *risk* of being investigated, but it does not (or should not) change what the outcome of what a pre-April investigation would be. That is based on your pre-April work, not on whether the client decided to make a policy decision.

Whilst I broadly agree with this, the issue really, as you have identified, is the increased risk of having to defend the position. If using this strategy then make sure that ALL evidence is gathered to support your position.
And it could be worthwhile making sure that you have evidence that after April, even after going PAYE you are either
- still operating without SDC and MOO (I assume ROS will be gone in the contract), or
- it is a demonstrably different role

A tax tribunal has lots of latitude to make a subjective decision based on the facts presented and going from outside to inside without any supporting evidenmce of your own could we be enough for good ass reaming.

[eek]

Whilst I broadly agree with this, the issue really, as you have identified, is the increased risk of having to defend the position. If using this strategy then make sure that ALL evidence is gathered to support your position.
And it could be worthwhile making sure that you have evidence that after April, even after going PAYE you are either
- still operating without SDC and MOO (I assume ROS will be gone in the contract), or
- it is a demonstrably different role

A tax tribunal has lots of latitude to make a subjective decision based on the facts presented and going from outside to inside without any supporting evidenmce of your own could we be enough for good ass reaming.

Both of you seem to assume that the posters on this site are concerned about tax tribunals.

Nope - I think if you got anywhere close to a tax tribunal you will have suffered years upon years of pain and stress as the HMRC Enquiry people have and chances are you would have sworn them away.

What I expect will happen is HMRC will send you some nice letters and then pass the debt they've assigned to you to a love debt collecting firm to collect from you via texts and phone calls until you give in. The nudge squad are very good at creating a lot of pressure to ensure people give up.

[SouWester]

What I expect will happen is HMRC will send you some nice letters and then pass the debt they've assigned to you to a love debt collecting firm to collect from you via texts and phone calls until you give in. The nudge squad are very good at creating a lot of pressure to ensure people give up.

+1 to that.

Unless you really should have been paying your taxes all along, the above is really what we are guarding against.

Tribunals are expensive and worthy of only the biggest fish (e.g. Mr Holmes). There really have not been many of these IR35-related over the past 20 years.

Mail-merge accusations are cheap and cast the next wide. What's new is the large pool of potential fish, a statistical near-certainty that some will panic and cough, or some should have actually been paying PAYE. Win-win for HMRC. Low-cost enforcement and demonstrable 'recovery'.

Best defence is to make yourself a small target and be ready to bat away mail-merge accusations (e.g. with CEST / QDOS / etc on your current contract).

[min]

Really? Its actually easy to argue:

Pre-April: I was self-determined outside. My professional review said so, my working practices said so, my client said so, CEST says so.

Pre-April: Legal at my client decided to remove risk and no longer engage with PSC.

Post April: I've gone PAYE/Ubmrella. It doesn't really matter now, but that doesn't change my Pre-April situation.

Yes, moving self-determined outside to PAYE/Umbrella might increase the *risk* of being investigated, but it does not (or should not) change what the outcome of what a pre-April investigation would be. That is based on your pre-April work, not on whether the client decided to make a policy decision.

Risk and ££££, plus sleepless nights.
Also working practices is key. That fully depend on the client and they might not be supportive. Could say anything to HMRC.
Again, risk and ££££, plus sleepless nights.
Next.

[Paralytic]

Risk and ££££, plus sleepless nights.
Also working practices is key. That fully depend on the client and they might not be supportive. Could say anything to HMRC.
Again, risk and ££££, plus sleepless nights.
Next.

So, you agree, that its easy to argue and the post-April move to Umbrella only changes the risk of an investigation, not the outcome (so long as you have correctly determined outside and have taken precautions). Thanks.

Next.

[Drei]

So after every IR35 contract I can go and claim JA? Sound like I can and shall do so, since I will have no other income coming in like you do from your company, right?

Just wondering what I will keep saying, sorry my temp contract is finished again, need to sign up. Sorry employed by a company (Umbrella) on zero hours contracts.

[northernladuk]

So after every IR35 contract I can go and claim JA? Sound like I can and shall do so, since I will have no other income coming in like you do from your company, right?

Just wondering what I will keep saying, sorry my temp contract is finished again, need to sign up. Sorry employed by a company (Umbrella) on zero hours contracts.

Good luck with that.

For JSA a claimant must not be in 'remunerative work' meaning at least 16 hrs per week (or 24 for a couple) and for Working Tax Credits they must be in remunerative work of at least 16 or 30 hrs per week depending on their circumstances. Where hours fluctuate, they can be averaged over whatever period gives the best reflection of normal working hours. However significant variation in hours can mean individuals alternate between benefits. They can generate overpayments and with that, the recently introduced civil penalties.
Experience significant fluctuations in income as individuals have to repeatedly send evidence of changing income for their benefit claims. In weeks of "no income" they can find that it is several weeks before they receive a benefit payment for that week, even if they are permitted to claim

If you get to the stage that you average over a period is enough to claim you need to rethink whether contracting is really for you.

[sira]

My gig is due to end 31st March with payment on 3rd April.

Given Rishi's comments, I was thinking to may change my end date to 3rd April (to get an extra 3 days pay), with payment in mid-April. I reckon this would be fairly low risk?

[northernladuk]

My gig is due to end 31st March with payment on 3rd April.

Given Rishi's comments, I was thinking to may change my end date to 3rd April (to get an extra 3 days pay), with payment in mid-April. I reckon this would be fairly low risk?

Don't see why not if you are able to do that.

[Drei]

If you get to the stage that you average over a period is enough to claim you need to rethink whether contracting is really for you.

It is hence why I am a proper contractor and not a disguised one, I am pissed off with the contractors that took the piss and caused the whole IR35 problem just because they were greedy. I never understood the contractors earning £700 a day and if they didn't get paid 1 week they "apparently" had no money to pay their bills.

I work when I need to and enjoy long breaks inbetween contracts with my family. In principle I earn the same salary as a permanent staff but work half as much. I can still do that now but will need to claim back tax and nic. I guess this would be one way of showing HMRC their wrondoings. If a lot of ocntractors start applying for tax and nic returns due to having a hight salary for 6 months of the year.


I work to live, I don't live to work...