What do you honestly think will happen in 2020?

[KinooOrKinog]

Let's face it, for a very high percentage of contractors out there, if they're brutally honest, they should be operating inside IR35 anyway. Especially the ones at the big banks.

[Barry Badrinath]

Let's face it, for a very high percentage of contractors out there, if they're brutally honest, they should be operating inside IR35 anyway. Especially the ones at the big banks.

I can't really disagree with this.

[SussexSeagull]

I have never worked in Banking but from what I read in here it does seem a lot of contractors there probably should be in IR35. More broadly I think it will vary and a lot of companies still haven't got it on their radar.

My suspicion is the current malaise in contracting is caused by the imminent recession but the uncertainty with IR35 certainly doesn't help.

[simes]

Most people I know are looking at options to find a permanent role. General thought that contracting is dead. No problem with starting contracting again of it turns out not to be. I'd prefer someone else to be the bellwether that HMRC goes after.

Meaning, if the larger proportion of contractors do all go permanent, HMRC's net gain will be naff all.

A contractor's 20% of a larger corporation income netting out to be roughly the same as a permie's 40% of a smaller income.

Am sure the HMRC have all this figured out though...

[CryingSheep]

Let's face it, for a very high percentage of contractors out there, if they're brutally honest, they should be operating inside IR35 anyway. Especially the ones at the big banks.

Not saying I disagree with the first part of your comment, just don't understand the last..! Why contracting in big banks is more likely to be inside ir35 than in any other client!?

[KinooOrKinog]

Not saying I disagree with the first part of your comment, just don't understand the last..! Why contracting in big banks is more likely to be inside ir35 than in any other client!?

Because they engage a very large number of contractors.
There's generally no negotiation entertained in terms of the contracts. If you try they'll say "that's the contract everyone gets. Take it or leave it"
Working practices are exactly the same as the permies.
A lot of them will have been there for years on end. Some of them decades.
In practice there's no way the bank would accept a substitute since the background checks would take weeks.
They are generally engaging the individual, not the LTD company.

I'm speaking from experience btw.

[JohntheBike]

Meaning, if the larger proportion of contractors do all go permanent, HMRC's net gain will be naff all.

A contractor's 20% of a larger corporation income netting out to be roughly the same as a permie's 40% of a smaller income.

Am sure the HMRC have all this figured out though...

HMRC's net gain will be naff all

but they will still claim it to be a success, everyone is complying see.

[JohntheBike]

Because they engage a very large number of contractors.
There's generally no negotiation entertained in terms of the contracts. If you try they'll say "that's the contract everyone gets. Take it or leave it"
Working practices are exactly the same as the permies.
A lot of them will have been there for years on end. Some of them decades.
In practice there's no way the bank would accept a substitute since the background checks would take weeks.
They are generally engaging the individual, not the LTD company.

I'm speaking from experience btw.

and this is where I say that it is the clients that have created this situation and even now, are likely not to have to suffer the consequences. Contractors have only taken advantage of a situation which they did not create.

[CryingSheep]

Because they engage a very large number of contractors.
There's generally no negotiation entertained in terms of the contracts. If you try they'll say "that's the contract everyone gets. Take it or leave it"
Working practices are exactly the same as the permies.
A lot of them will have been there for years on end. Some of them decades.
In practice there's no way the bank would accept a substitute since the background checks would take weeks.
They are generally engaging the individual, not the LTD company.

I'm speaking from experience btw.

My experience has always been in big banks.

I agree it would be hard to agree a substitute, but this would be due to reasonable reasons, I believe, not being enough to define someone as inside IR35 on its own.

On the other hand, it happened to me before having a 6 months contract and after 4 months the project was over and my contract was terminated! How this wouldn't clearly put me outside IR35!?

Working practices are exactly the same as permies!? In which sense!? In my time there, never had to attend a team meeting, 1-2-1s, or any other permie calls/training/activities/bs...

I'm not saying I haven't seen many contractors doing BAU and clearly doing permie work, but wouldn't say it was the majority, so not sure why you're generalising based on your probably very specific experience...

[Paralytic]

I suspect KinooOrKinog is most likely erroneously projecting his own experience onto others - a kind of safety blanket "well at least I'm not the only one in this boat".

Like you, i recognise what he's seen, but the blanket statement that it covers all contracts is off the mark.